A theory

BravoHotel

Well-Known Member
I know this is the heart of everything evil, but bear with me. This is from my point of view on a very volatile subject. Here I stand 32 years of age, 97K in debt from going to ATP, a Riddle degree, and I am working on parachutes for a living, going to school with my post 9/11 GI Bill to earn the BHA (Basic Housing Allowance) so I can pay rent on my apartment, my student loan( 658 a month), food, gas, and and car insurance. My fiance is an Army E-5, she makes most of the bucks actually. I am not living a luxury life here by any stretch of the imagination. I just separated from the Air National Guard working on C-130s, waiting to be in- processed to the Air Force Reserve so I can go to Flight Engineer school for C-5s.

Every time I pay that student loan payment I am thinking to my self why am I not flying? I am paying for it, but I am not using it. I can't even afford to go out and rent an ultra light or an LSA to fly around the patch for a few hours.

I have 750 tt and I have thought to my self, you know what, I could fly for FREE. I need to fly, it hurts me not to fly. But I don't.

Then reality sets in, I can't pick up and move cross country for some low wage flying job to build hours. I had a couple job offers in the jump pilot sector, for like 400 a week. I don't have enough time to fly for a regional because of the new rulings. I had a call back from Surf Air but not to be a pilot, a "flight coordinator" since I didn't have the 800TT required to be a F/O on their PC-12s....

Anyways. Is there something I am missing, not getting or blind to? Any help in "getting it" would be appreciated. If you're in Sacramento, CA I can take you out for a PBR, but thats about it.

Ben
 
I dont understand the question?

If you were willing to take on massive debt to get to the position to fly, why is that you cannot move cross country to work a couple years at a pilot mill flight school or fly survey?
 
I dont understand the question?

If you were willing to take on massive debt to get to the position to fly, why is that you cannot move cross country to work a couple years at a pilot mill flight school or fly survey?

I was at the time, 2008. Now I have an Air Force commitment and a family to think about.
 
That has eluded me for some time. Need some bucks for CFI training. Maybe sell my guns? my self on the street corner?


I sold my nice guitars to finish my CFI and I make pretty serious coin and have no debt, I dont regret it for a minute. Can't have everything.
 
I have 750 tt and I have thought to my self, you know what, I could fly for FREE. I need to fly, it hurts me not to fly. But I don't.


If you just want to fly, find a glider club (they will let you tow for free pretty much on your schedule), or an Air Force Aero Club to teach at (if there are any left -sad).

Or, drop in on all of the local flight schools and see who is looking for a part time instructor. (Pretty much everyone is right now).
 
That has eluded me for some time. Need some bucks for CFI training. Maybe sell my guns? my self on the street corner?


I self-studied for both of the CFI certs I have, it is doable. You should be able to swing that for less than $900 out of pocket. (Free exam with the Feds). Should not require selling more than one, perhaps two guns.
 
I know this is the heart of everything evil, but bear with me. This is from my point of view on a very volatile subject. Here I stand 32 years of age, 97K in debt from going to ATP, a Riddle degree, and I am working on parachutes for a living, going to school with my post 9/11 GI Bill to earn the BHA (Basic Housing Allowance) so I can pay rent on my apartment, my student loan( 658 a month), food, gas, and and car insurance. My fiance is an Army E-5, she makes most of the bucks actually. I am not living a luxury life here by any stretch of the imagination. I just separated from the Air National Guard working on C-130s, waiting to be in- processed to the Air Force Reserve so I can go to Flight Engineer school for C-5s.

Every time I pay that student loan payment I am thinking to my self why am I not flying? I am paying for it, but I am not using it. I can't even afford to go out and rent an ultra light or an LSA to fly around the patch for a few hours.

I have 750 tt and I have thought to my self, you know what, I could fly for FREE. I need to fly, it hurts me not to fly. But I don't.

Then reality sets in, I can't pick up and move cross country for some low wage flying job to build hours. I had a couple job offers in the jump pilot sector, for like 400 a week. I don't have enough time to fly for a regional because of the new rulings. I had a call back from Surf Air but not to be a pilot, a "flight coordinator" since I didn't have the 800TT required to be a F/O on their PC-12s....

Anyways. Is there something I am missing, not getting or blind to? Any help in "getting it" would be appreciated. If you're in Sacramento, CA I can take you out for a PBR, but thats about it.

Ben


Unfortunately, I think you "get it". You shouldn't have gotten yourself into that much debt at the entry level of a flying career. Now at 32 you have to go into the AFRC to plumb on Fred to make ends meet. Unless you are doing it just serve your country, which is admirable, plumbing on Fred is a dead end job that doesn't transfer over to the civilian sector anymore. So you are paying $658 a month to service a debt that is bringing NOTHING of value to you.

Don't go and start the "woe is me" banter about the new ATP ruling "screwing" you. It what it should have been all along. Back in the 80s, you have to have 2500TT with 500-1000 multi just to get a right seat commuter job in a freaking Metro, Bandit or other 15-19 seat commuter prop. Don't start with the entitlement that "I went to ATP, have a degree from Riddle and I'm in debt up to me eyeballs and I have 750TT so I'm deserving of a flying job at the commuters". Not saying that you are, but it sounds like from you post that you are spring loaded to go there.

When I was 32 I was a four year Captain at my first major airline. I didn't make the mistake of getting into debt for a flight school or getting and expensive degree that is worthless in the real world. I started flying professionally at 20 and worked my way up and made it to the majors by age 26.

Best of luck and a sincere thanks for your military service.
 
Unfortunately, I think you "get it". You shouldn't have gotten yourself into that much debt at the entry level of a flying career. Now at 32 you have to go into the AFRC to plumb on Fred to make ends meet. Unless you are doing it just serve your country, which is admirable, plumbing on Fred is a dead end job that doesn't transfer over to the civilian sector anymore. So you are paying $658 a month to service a debt that is bringing NOTHING of value to you.

Don't go and start the "woe is me" banter about the new ATP ruling "screwing" you. It what it should have been all along. Back in the 80s, you have to have 2500TT with 500-1000 multi just to get a right seat commuter job in a freaking Metro, Bandit or other 15-19 seat commuter prop. Don't start with the entitlement that "I went to ATP, have a degree from Riddle and I'm in debt up to me eyeballs and I have 750TT so I'm deserving of a flying job at the commuters". Not saying that you are, but it sounds like from you post that you are spring loaded to go there.

When I was 32 I was a four year Captain at my first major airline. I didn't make the mistake of getting into debt for a flight school or getting and expensive degree that is worthless in the real world. I started flying professionally at 20 and worked my way up and made it to the majors by age 26.

Best of luck and a sincere thanks for your military service.

A dose of reality. I raise my PBR to you good Sir.
 
I don't think he considers himself "entitled". I think he's expressing his hesitation to declare the hedge he bet that his pulling of debts would pay off in opportunity didn't pan out as of yet and whether to accept that and stick with his new priorities or find another way. This is life. We all face decisions like these, whether it's to fly a JetStream for $15/hour or fly an Airbus for 60. Add in family and ties and you further limit your choices on what you can accept and how fast you can pay off that debt.
 
When I was 32 I was a four year Captain at my first major airline. I didn't make the mistake of getting into debt for a flight school or getting and expensive degree that is worthless in the real world. I started flying professionally at 20 and worked my way up and made it to the majors by age 26.

You are so smart and cool. *swoon*
 
Yeah Hawks, I think you get it and I'm sorry for your situation. You've been a member of JC long enough to have seen plenty of the discussions here about debt, job prospecting and the rest of the ball of wax. All the information probably occurred post debt,which is why it sucks.

But, I think you've got it - big debt and the reality of paying it off. No entry level job is going to pay it off so now you're stuck doing whatever helps you live pay check to paycheck while never getting ahead. Some folks solution was bankruptcy if it was through personal loans and not federal loans. Some folks solution was never getting a flying job because another job paid the bills.

Whatever your solution is will be up to you, and we do wish you the best of luck.
 
Hey Ben, I know an instructor at Sac Exec that just got hired by Aperture, but I'm assuming an 8 on 7 off schedule is not gonna mesh with AF? Or maybe talk to Aperture and see if it works with the Reserves.
 
A lot of frustration manifested its self there. However, the whole premise was the thought of flying for free entered my mind.
 
A lot of frustration manifested its self there. However, the whole premise was the thought of flying for free entered my mind.


If you want to volunteer your piloting skills:
Got an active CAP squadron around? They might have cadets who need rides, SAR training, drug surveilance, etc.
Got a glider club around, you can tow gliders?
 
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