dasleben
That's just, like, your opinion, man
That's quite true where I work, though I know you're talking about foreign airlines. I simply can't hold the vast majority of the domestic lines on the 767.
Asiana Airline's High Rate of Go Arounds at SFO
- Thread starter SeanD
- Start date
That's quite true where I work, though I know you're talking about foreign airlines. I simply can't hold the vast majority of the domestic lines on the 767.
Autothrust Blue
Welcome aboard the Washington State Ferries
This is still fixing the wrong problem, though.
There exists a unique political opportunity to run up the score AND build up the US's airline business simultaneously here.
Psh, modern airplanes never do that.
Oh wait, they do...
Pilot Fighter
Well-Known Member
While we shouldn't criticize a pilot's decision to go around, we sure as hell should question high go-around rates that might suggest an airline has a problem.
z987k
Well-Known Member
Indeed, the problem still exists and can happen again. I joked about canceling a flight for an ILS being out, but what happens, when en-route on a 8 hour flight, the glideslope stops working on the only runway long enough for your numbers to work? Do you seriously divert? If not, are you now asking a crew to do something they probably haven't done for 6 months... 6 years?
And keep it around for anti-cabotage maybe?
stuckingfk
Well-Known Member
If you need to go-around for safety reasons, by all means go-around. But as others have alluded to, there is something wrong here that goes deeper. Training within the company, pilots training prior to being an airline pilot, company procedures, cultural issues, etc.
I just checked my logbook, been into SFO over 100 times. Haven't gone around once. Not saying I'm superior to these Asiana pilots, but if they account for 20% of the go arounds there is something wrong with them. It really isn't that hard to be stable by 1000 feet, or be Vref +5 -0, not -30.
Autothrust Blue
Welcome aboard the Washington State Ferries
I've done exactly two go-arounds in 2 years of airline flying. One didn't even count as a go-around in the traditional "Set power, flaps 15, positive rate gear up," balked landing sense (it was decided from the left that we should extricate ourselves from the situation long before we configured for landing and go elsewhere) and the other was a 'real' go around due to (yes) my own failure, as a new-hire jet FO, to commit aviation properly and make the aircraft meet stabilized approach criteria. Needless to say, I learned quite a bit about flying from that.
The first go-around is free. The second and subsequent...ehhh. And if you have lots of go-arounds happening at a certain airport, there is definitely some sort of issue - but I'd rather see a higher go-around rate than a higher rate of unstabilized approaches.
Sure.
Inverted
mmmmmm wine
My friend who is an SFO controller. That is what the controllers were told by their pilots when being cleared for the visual.
N519AT
Ahh! This is how I change this!
Aww come on. The circle to 29 is a nice break to the "direct teterboro, cleared ILS 22L" game.
This post brought to you by beta from my iPhone.
scooter2525
Very well Member
Bingo. Although root cause is why did it get to the point that a go around was necessary.
Seggy
Well-Known Member
Huh? This makes no sense.
Speaking of, friend sent me this link he found on airliners:
http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Foreign-airlines-urged-to-use-GPS-for-SFO-landings-4692348.php
Really? Really? So the FAA is basically saying "Its come to our attention pilots from some countries can't fly airplanes, just manage computer systems".
What's next? "Its come to our attention American CFI's are discouraging their Asian students from following the magenta line on PPL XC flights, looking out the window goes against the wishes of the sponsored air carrier, please correct this at once". Sheesh.
Well since our government has imposed hour requirements for us Americans working at domestic airlines, I don't see why they couldn't require more experience of foreign air carrier crews operating in our tax payer sponsored airspace.
ComplexHiAv8r
Well-Known Member
Seggy said:
I think it's good a pilot sees to go around but if an airline is seeing slot it might be a training / SOP issues, and that needs to be reviewed.
Thinking that comment before stabilized by 500 AGL at some, others 1000 AGL. If airline having issues stabilized by 500 that they might change to 1000.
Pilot Fighter
Well-Known Member
Maybe we should use LSO's for problem carriers.
Autothrust Blue
Welcome aboard the Washington State Ferries
Lots of individual circumstances belying an underlying problem is what he's getting at -- I think.
Autothrust Blue
Welcome aboard the Washington State Ferries
In my case I invoked the Asoh Defense.
ChasenSFO
hen teaser
The vast majority of the Asiana fleet is widebody, so I'd imagine, at least as second or junior first officers, many new-hires go straight into the 777, 767, A330, or 747 over there. Many are hired on with wet commercials from the states after completing 141 programs, so I doubt they have much more than 250 hours. How long the upgrade is to being full fledged right seat in the heavies, I'm not sure, but guys on pprune claim pilots have ended up in the left seat of wide-bodies with less than 10 years at the company. Not that surprising since Asiana hasn't been around all that long compared to most Asian airlines serving the US and they expanded rapidly with mostly big airplanes.
Pilot Fighter
Well-Known Member
Read the post to which I was replying. The subject of the thread addresses a carrier's go-around rate at SFO. Minuteman use of "anyone" suggests that he was speaking of criticizing individual pilots. Minuteman says we "shouldn't be knocking anyone's go-around rate." I was making a distinction between individuals and carriers.
I was suggesting that the carrier's aggregate go-around rate invites scrutiny, criticism, and action.
Obviously, we fear any action that would make the problem worse.
dasleben
That's just, like, your opinion, man
Hey, you guys get more landings before lunch than I do in an entire month. I suck now. Gimme the ILS.
Seggy
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I know you were specifically looking at carrier's go around rates, which still makes no sense. For example, Alaska Airlines does a lot of flying in Southeast Alaska. Are you saying we should look to see what the problems are at Alaska if they go around more than say Spirit does?