New NTSB Chairman's actions
- Thread starter derg
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Seggy
Well-Known Member
As I said earlier, not sure if you read it, but a lot of what the NTSB is doing is being influenced by the groups to the investigation with A LOT of political clout. I did anticipate a change to the way the NTSB was conducting the investigations with the release of info, but not to this extent.
Nick
Well-Known Member
I agree. And I see things here that are being released that are barely factual.
Take this light blinding thing as an example.
Hersman is on record so far saying "we need to find out what this was."
Well if they know so little about it that they don't even know what happened and haven't talked to the pilot about it yet, then what's the point of releasing that information?
Really, what is so urgent about releasing information that they haven't even confirmed yet?
I do not see any purpose that relates to the investigation itself.
PositionAndHold
Well-Known Member
"I wonder if it has any thing to do with it being the first major accident in the Facebook generation? Or I guess you could say smart phone generation. We live in a time where every thing from what people eat to how their kid poops is shared instantly. I think it may be the NTSB's way of getting ahead of that before people start sharing on their own."
This is what I posted in the other thread, and I think its one of the biggest factors. People demand instant info because they know if they are capable of it, the NTSB should be. No need for a press conference, just a Facebook status update will do.
I will give her credit. She went out of her way to try and explain automation to the press. I saw the first few mins of it and she was doing a pretty good job.
This is what I posted in the other thread, and I think its one of the biggest factors. People demand instant info because they know if they are capable of it, the NTSB should be. No need for a press conference, just a Facebook status update will do.
I will give her credit. She went out of her way to try and explain automation to the press. I saw the first few mins of it and she was doing a pretty good job.
My concern is that "factual information" doesn't necessarily correlate to "causal factor".
The media is still going to drive for the most bombastic, highest-rating story possible because it's what the public demands and it's profitable.
As a professional, I don't give two poops about what public sentiment is about an incident.
What I do care about is finding systemic flaws and failures so it isn't repeated.
When the NTSB sinks into the scope of "TMZ" and "Extra" with newsiness, time to shut 'err down.
The media is still going to drive for the most bombastic, highest-rating story possible because it's what the public demands and it's profitable.
As a professional, I don't give two poops about what public sentiment is about an incident.
What I do care about is finding systemic flaws and failures so it isn't repeated.
When the NTSB sinks into the scope of "TMZ" and "Extra" with newsiness, time to shut 'err down.
PositionAndHold
Well-Known Member
I agree with every thing you said. I think they are trying to figure out the balance in this new age of instant info. I would rather have the media starting with facts while they speculate rather than just pulling stuff out of thin air. That, or she really wants to be SECDOT and it's all politically motivated.
WacoFan
Bigly
Yeah, I got that gist...which makes me wonder how much to hold Hershman responsible. Still I think she's attractive though.
WacoFan
Bigly
I do not dispute a word you or (blargh) Seggy (blargh..sorry, that hurts) say about this issue. I was in a discussion with my Dad about the evils of government and the incompetence of the workers. I was the more moderate of the two in saying that two agencies for sure had great employees - the NTSB and the CDC. My premise was that if you are an airplane accident investigator (or a virus geek who wants to do lots of research) - those entities are the primary games in town I would think, allowing them to recruit high-performing, well educated people. It is irritating that they are changing a formula (NTSB) that has seemingly worked very well.
So if releasing information that's isn't incorrect is wrong, then how does not releasing anything become helpful? Before it was locked, the original thread on this topic had 1,278 posts in 60 hours, most of which were incredibly informative.
If you get nothing from the NTSB, then the wild speculation at ABC/CBS/NBC/CNN/Fox/MSNBC wouldn't be much different than what you'd read here.
If you get nothing from the NTSB, then the wild speculation at ABC/CBS/NBC/CNN/Fox/MSNBC wouldn't be much different than what you'd read here.
The difference with 800 wasn't necessarily that information wasn't being released, it's that wreckage accountability was shoddy with regards to the FBI's portion of the investigation, in terms of how they were doing what they felt like doing in that regard. I don't blame the NTSB for that one, as they can't necessarily control what the FBI does when the FBI is holding the bat on the investigation's early stages. Where the NTSB went wrong was that they were open with information, they just were tunnel visioned to one particular causal factor that they even admit they don't know if it was the initiating event for the CWT, just the most likely in their opinion. Though they stated that in the probable cause, they likely should've emphasized the "cannot be determined positively" more than the "we think it's this", as the "we think its this" has become "this is definitately what it is", rather than it being more appropriate for the former statement to be.
Like you, Im disgusted as well with this particular extreme the NTSB chairwoman is taking, as it's turning what's supposed to be an investigation with integrity, into a 3-ring circus.
Releasing information that may be correct, but hasn't been correlated to anything yet or properly investigated to see what direction it takes the investigators, is premature and leads to wildly speculative conclusions that may not be correct at all, even though the particular tidbit of fact is. That's the first step in the destruction of investigative integrity. General information that won't necessarily be changed by further investigation....where it's meaning is known stand-alone, such as the death by getting run over by the fire truck.......doesn't fall into this category, in my opinion.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
I stopped watching the first day after the CVR/FDR readouts. Can you comment on what's going wrong? Is she releasing factual info or is it reaching beyond that?
Seggy
Well-Known Member
She is releasing bits and pieces without the completion of the full investigational phase of the accident. Usually there is a docket of the accident released to the NTSB website a few months after the facts are gathered. In this docket you have the facts the NTSB investigators discovered over the course of the investigation. That is a much more complete contextual view of what the facts are rather than this where incomplete information being put out.
Like I said, I did expect some facts to be put out, but this is ridiculous.
It's absolutely ridiculous, for the reasons we've mentioned. I'm very disgusted at the NTSB.
FloridaLarry
Well-Known Member
WacoFan said:
What could cause either Ms H or the NTSB to look foolish: having to retract or change something they said pretty quickly (unless the appearance vs science excuse is real or can be played as such). Pressure on the back-room scientists to rush or jump to unsupported conclusions. SHOULD that happen, it will get out and there will be a predictable, and justified, storm.
My bet is that this is simply a style change from Ms H, for personal political reasons and to enhance the public reputation of the NTSB. The second leads to more money, facilities, staff for their good work, which I do not see undermined by this change. YMMV.
I haven't seen a 180 from the NTSB on anything except the release of factual information earlier than we are used to. Other than earlier release of info, she still seems extremely competent, and so does the NTSB. It actually seems more competent, since we see them reading out the two recorders faster than sometimes (of course, it helps that they weren't fried!).
What could cause either Ms H or the NTSB to look foolish: having to retract or change something they said pretty quickly (unless the appearance vs science excuse is real or can be played as such). Pressure on the back-room scientists to rush or jump to unsupported conclusions. SHOULD that happen, it will get out and there will be a predictable, and justified, storm.
My bet is that this is simply a style change from Ms H, for personal political reasons and to enhance the public reputation of the NTSB. The second leads to more money, facilities, staff for their good work, which I do not see undermined by this change. YMMV.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
I know! That's what I've been saying! Maybe I've confused you for someone else, weren't you praising her for what she is doing and this whole transparency thing?
FloridaLarry
Well-Known Member
Mike D said, in part:
The genie will always escape the bottle - sooner or later. You simply cannot get him/her back in there any more.
With tremendous respect to Mike D, I'm a half-full-glass guy, and my conclusions are that many times, this will push the investigators even further into integrity (if indeed that were possible). Their job is to scientifically connect the dots, and stay in the lab, not the public eye. Their dedication continues to make me proud.
As a trained journalist (among other parts of life), I don't like the 24 hour news cycle; rampant speculation with or without any factual basis, or manipulation of the public, never mind the media; by politicians and other 'leaders.' It's an unfortunate fact that all this is occurring, cannot be turned back and that most of the public does not yet have the training, smarts or perception to assess it thoroughly and rationally.
We can get smarter as consumers of media, move away from supporting the worst (castrate Fox?) and tell the good story. In the long haul, good usually trumps evil. That's democracy.
The genie will always escape the bottle - sooner or later. You simply cannot get him/her back in there any more.
With tremendous respect to Mike D, I'm a half-full-glass guy, and my conclusions are that many times, this will push the investigators even further into integrity (if indeed that were possible). Their job is to scientifically connect the dots, and stay in the lab, not the public eye. Their dedication continues to make me proud.
As a trained journalist (among other parts of life), I don't like the 24 hour news cycle; rampant speculation with or without any factual basis, or manipulation of the public, never mind the media; by politicians and other 'leaders.' It's an unfortunate fact that all this is occurring, cannot be turned back and that most of the public does not yet have the training, smarts or perception to assess it thoroughly and rationally.
We can get smarter as consumers of media, move away from supporting the worst (castrate Fox?) and tell the good story. In the long haul, good usually trumps evil. That's democracy.
