Ok, this is funny! Drunk pax fights a pilot in the terminal.

Screaming_Emu said:
Eh...I go both ways.

Professionally, its not a good idea to keep yourself in a situation like that. But there is absolutely no damn excuse for acting the way the drunk guy did. I'm not saying that the captain should have just laid him out, but I don't understand why people are giving the captain more of a hard time than the drunk idiot that started it all.

Yesterday I was enjoying my lunch on C concourse in IAD when a passenger came running up to the gate. He had just barely missed his flight and decided to make a scene. Slamming his fists on the counter, pacing back and forth in an aggressive manner, etc. There is absolutely no reason to act like that as an adult. If someone had put him on his ass it probably would have been deserved.
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While I totally agree that the drunk deserved to get knocked out, the core issue at hand is that flight crew in uniform (like law enforcement and public safety) are authority figures that are held to a higher standard by the public. Once you put that uniform on, the public doesn't care that you're off the clock until the door closes/brakes release, nor do they care about how disgruntled you are with labor relations or low pay, all they know is you guys are in charge of the flight and they're supposed to listen to your 'PIC authority' (or the captain's anyway). Once you start behaving like that Captain did, you risk losing the confidence of the rest of the passengers, they'll all start questioning your authority and your competence and you'll create even more potential problems for yourself. I think it's called "command presence" in law enforcement - you remain stern but cool, calm and collected. Call the police and let them do their jobs!

There are a lot of law enforcement officers on this forum who have already pitched in some very good advice in this thread. You'd be surprised how many people tell cops "F--- the police" or the like and the cop just chuckles and says "have a nice day sir." They're mad at the authority not the individual, and besides - they're just words! "Sticks and stones" remember?

In your case with the aggressive/threatening passenger and the case in the video above, both irate passengers are guilty of a crime. Check out CA PC 415:

415. Any of the following persons shall be punished by imprisonment
in the county jail for a period of not more than 90 days, a fine of
not more than four hundred dollars ($400), or both such imprisonment
and fine:
(1) Any person who unlawfully fights in a public place or
challenges another person in a public place to fight.
(2) Any person who maliciously and willfully disturbs another
person by loud and unreasonable noise.
(3) Any person who uses offensive words in a public place which
are inherently likely to provoke an immediate violent reaction.
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So follow Derg's version of the "Ask - Tell - Make" rule:

* Ask
* Tell
* Call the cops, don't engage them further and let the cops drag their ass out

If you engage every drunk insulting pax in some macho bar fight style schlong measuring contest, not only do you open yourself up to a world of liability but you lose that all important "Command Presence", and you lose control of the whole situation. In my mind, the latter is worse.
 
rframe said:
There are some basic psychological methods to de-escalating aggressive people. Some of the best bouncers and security (real, not mall cops) never have to lay a finger on people. They form a non-aggressive partnership with the aggressor or give them face saving ways to "win" without any further escalation, and can then lead them down and away from the situation. Of course, being cool and calm enough to do that often comes with knowing that you can physically control and stop that person easily if needed (which comes from skill and training in combatives).

I would think airlines would advocate exactly what Derg says he does. Call security immediately. Let them do their job so you can do yours. One thing I know about fighting is that any physical altercation can escalate in extreme and unpredicted ways... so do whatever you can to avoid the physical and if you need to resort to it, it needs to be all in to stop the threat quickly, and that means people are going to get hurt and there will be a serious legal battle that results. You dont want that unless you really feel someone's safety is in serious imminent danger.
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This x10000000000000.
 
inigo88 said:
While I totally agree that the drunk deserved to get knocked out, the core issue at hand is that flight crew in uniform (like law enforcement and public safety) are authority figures that are held to a higher standard by the public. Once you put that uniform on, the public doesn't care that you're off the clock until the door closes/brakes release, nor do they care about how disgruntled you are with labor relations or low pay, all they know is you guys are in charge of the flight and they're supposed to listen to your 'PIC authority' (or the captain's anyway). Once you start behaving like that Captain did, you risk losing the confidence of the rest of the passengers, they'll all start questioning your authority and your competence and you'll create even more potential problems for yourself. I think it's called "command presence" in law enforcement - you remain stern but cool, calm and collected. Call the police and let them do their jobs!

There are a lot of law enforcement officers on this forum who have already pitched in some very good advice in this thread. You'd be surprised how many people tell cops "F--- the police" or the like and the cop just chuckles and says "have a nice day sir." They're mad at the authority not the individual, and besides - they're just words! "Sticks and stones" remember?

In your case with the aggressive/threatening passenger and the case in the video above, both irate passengers are guilty of a crime. Check out CA PC 415:



So follow Derg's version of the "Ask - Tell - Make" rule:

* Ask
* Tell
* Call the cops, don't engage them further and let the cops drag their ass out

If you engage every drunk insulting pax in some macho bar fight style schlong measuring contest, not only do you open yourself up to a world of liability but you lose that all important "Command Presence", and you lose control of the whole situation. In my mind, the latter is worse.
Click to expand...

Command presence is huge. The uniform plays a huge part in it too. I responded to a call one time where we had a transient trespassing at a Law Firm. My T.O. and and another officer showed up, squared away looking and walked in. The guy saw us and said "Oh •, you guys aren't messing..." I kid you not. I account the reason was not only because there was 3 of us, but because we were squared away in our uniform and our uniformity in presence. We initially controlled the situation with our presence.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
Eh...I go both ways.

Professionally, its not a good idea to keep yourself in a situation like that. But there is absolutely no damn excuse for acting the way the drunk guy did. I'm not saying that the captain should have just laid him out, but I don't understand why people are giving the captain more of a hard time than the drunk idiot that started it all.

Yesterday I was enjoying my lunch on C concourse in IAD when a passenger came running up to the gate. He had just barely missed his flight and decided to make a scene. Slamming his fists on the counter, pacing back and forth in an aggressive manner, etc. There is absolutely no reason to act like that as an adult. If someone had put him on his ass it probably would have been deserved.
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Well deserved battery is still battery.
 
De-escalate and protect yourself.

A disgruntled passenger is never within reach of me. Screw that, I'm not paid enough.

That's why I like overseas. If you call the po-po on a pax, they actually enjoy making their lives miserable. I think the airport police in Moscow make it a "senior bid" so they can give the airport beat-down to disgruntled passengers.

Lesson to be learned here is never negotiate with the enemy.

Not passengers aren't "The Enemy" at all, but once you go into "Ass Mode" the party is over for you and the party starts for me! :) Woooo! Smack eeem again! Wooo!
 
Derg said:
At my airline, they want us to, well optionally, "engage the customers" during delays and irregular operations.
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01-how-about-no-bear.jpg
 
BEEF SUPREME said:
01-how-about-no-bear.jpg
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That's what most of us said.

If we're on a three-hour delay, like hell anyone's going to pop up from the safety of the pilot lounge to the cacophony of the terminal and make up some story with the severely limited information and scant authority we have to do anything about it.
 
Derg said:
That's what most of us said.

If we're on a three-hour delay, like hell anyone's going to pop up from the safety of the pilot lounge to the cacophony of the terminal and make up some story with the severely limited information and scant authority we have to do anything about it.
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I legitimately like helping people who need it, provided 1) I actually have the ability to help them and 2) I'm not just doing something that they're too lazy to do. Some of the best experiences I've had at work have been helping somebody out of a jam.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
I legitimately like helping people who need it, provided 1) I actually have the ability to help them and 2) I'm not just doing something that they're too lazy to do. Some of the best experiences I've had at work have been helping somebody out of a jam.
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I like solving problems.

And eating crunchy, delicious tacos.
 
Derg said:
I like solving problems.

And eating crunchy, delicious tacos.
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I think my favorite one was when the lady handed me a note that her daughter wrote her saying that she didn't speak english and needed a wheelchair that should have been pre-ordered. I saw her Austrian passport and without missing a beat started speaking to her in German. She was an extremely nice person and it was an absolute pleasure helping her.

PS...crunchy tacos are an abomination. Soft tacos are the way to go. Every time I eat a crunchy taco it ends up a taco salad because it all breaks apart.
 
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