Pilot Fighter
Well-Known Member
"Bluestreak, aircraft on 18L, stop your roll. PC-12, head for the grass!!!!!". It seems that they would do a bit more than cancel the clearance.
If I remember that intersection correctly you can't see the end of 18L because it's beyond the crest of the hill and with the angle of that taxiway it'd be hard to see from the left seat of a Pilatus.She cleared 390 for T/O and gave 9DR a position and hold instruction, although she didn't say "taxi into". "Line up and wait" didn't happen until Sep of 10 and of course this is May 09. Seems the controller wasn't clear, unless I'm missing something. I guess this is a good lesson to look both ways regardless and also listen as much as you can. 9DR might have been able to hear the clearance given for 390 just prior to their own instructions and maybe realize the conflict. Of course hind sight is 20/20 and I know I mostly listen for my call sign, tough to keep track of everyone else.
She cleared 390 for T/O and gave 9DR a position and hold instruction, although she didn't say "taxi into". "Line up and wait" didn't happen until Sep of 10 and of course this is May 09. Seems the controller wasn't clear, unless I'm missing something.
"Position and hold" is pretty clear to me. Considering risks associated with intersection take-offs, I'm surprised one of the crews didn't catch the possible conflict. Knowing that folks perk up when they hear their call sign, I often use non-standard calls in this situation, much to the disdain of controllers. I'll read back a clearance and add, "understand Pilatus409 is holding short of my 18L". I usually get an answer that also mentions Pilatus409, plus my original clearance, which I confirm.
I agree, it is clear to me as well. I just wonder if she was clear on what she was instructing the Pilatus to do. Usually (but not required??) the Position and Hold instruction is preceded by "taxi into" which I think she omitted. I wonder if she thought she was telling the Pilatus to Hold Short but used the wrong phraseology? In which case, if there is any doubt on my part or notice a conflict, your advice to confirm is spot on, especially at an intersection with landing and departing traffic.
If I remember that intersection correctly you can't see the end of 18L because it's beyond the crest of the hill and with the angle of that taxiway it'd be hard to see from the left seat of a Pilatus.
I think she just forgot she had an intersection departure on the shelf. It sounds like she thought the PC-12 was following the Bluestreak.
I can't see any scenario in which this isn't a controller error. She cleared an airplane to takeoff, and cleared an airplane to position and hold in front of him, using very standard phraseology.
The controller made a mistake, but had the Pilatus pilot used standard phraseology, this would probably never have happened. She obviously thought the pc12 was full length. Had he responded properly (runway 18L at Alpha, position and hold) I'm willing to bet that somebody would have caught it.
It's the little things that can kill you...
They won't even let you taxi across 23 on delta because of that. You have to take alpha to the approach end of 23 and cross there.If I remember that intersection correctly you can't see the end of 18L because it's beyond the crest of the hill and with the angle of that taxiway it'd be hard to see from the left seat of a Pilatus.