The equipment is extremely well equipped so I dont see how it could be that. So if its not those things than where did the rule come from? Most of the experienced guys love it cause it means they get to sit around and play xbox more. Probably the laziest bunch of people Ive ever worked with.
Pilots who are afraid of the airplane
- Thread starter RumpleTumbler
- Start date
I get the infatuation. For me, it has to do with reliability and statistics. I chose aviation as a means to provide for my family. Since it is not my sport, I want the easiest, safest option. That option is 121 turbine.Very. I've never understood the infatuation with high amounts of flight time in them. 2 hours flight time and maybe a book, and you've got it.
I loved the piston days, but I choose turbine to provide for my wife and kids. It's simply a safer bet.
trafficinsight
Well-Known Member
No matter how well equipped the panel is, it's still only got one engine that so far hasn't proven to be rock solid, and it's slow so it can't really outrun any weather.
Alchemy
Well-Known Member
Scared pilot syndrome really bugs me. I flew with a guy once who would would let out a little yell and grab onto the nearest oh "crap" handle as hard as he could anytime we hit a pocket of turbulence. So annoying.
The only time I should've been scared in the last few years (but wasn't until after the fact) was the first time I tried to land a 747 in a 30 knot crosswind a few years ago. Of course this was at JFK on 4R which is about 8000 ft long (short for a 747 at 650,000 lbs, as we were that day). Winds 310@30. Why not use 31L or R? I don't know, it's New York, they don't do things that make sense
I touched down in a slight crab, one wing slightly low. I floated just a bit but greased the wing and body gear on about 2000 ft from the runway threshold....I relaxed and thought I was a pimp. Then the spoilers deployed and all hell broke loose. The left wing rose like mad and the nose started to rear up like any angry cobra. In no time the thing is damn near 10 degrees nose up on the runway and it feels like we're about to slide out of our seats to the right. Yeah......the captain had to help me get that one under control. Full nose down and left turn input on the yoke eventually brought the nose gear down with a "THUD", thanks in part to the autobrakes kicking in near max. Humbling, but lesson learned....the wing on the whale keeps flying long after it's on the ground. Similarly it starts flying well before rotation - the upwind wing will always rise up on you don't give it at least a little bit of correction before rotation. I have a new-found respect for those guys trying to land the things at the old Kai Tak airport in HKG a few decades ago.
The only time I should've been scared in the last few years (but wasn't until after the fact) was the first time I tried to land a 747 in a 30 knot crosswind a few years ago. Of course this was at JFK on 4R which is about 8000 ft long (short for a 747 at 650,000 lbs, as we were that day). Winds 310@30. Why not use 31L or R? I don't know, it's New York, they don't do things that make sense
I touched down in a slight crab, one wing slightly low. I floated just a bit but greased the wing and body gear on about 2000 ft from the runway threshold....I relaxed and thought I was a pimp. Then the spoilers deployed and all hell broke loose. The left wing rose like mad and the nose started to rear up like any angry cobra. In no time the thing is damn near 10 degrees nose up on the runway and it feels like we're about to slide out of our seats to the right. Yeah......the captain had to help me get that one under control. Full nose down and left turn input on the yoke eventually brought the nose gear down with a "THUD", thanks in part to the autobrakes kicking in near max. Humbling, but lesson learned....the wing on the whale keeps flying long after it's on the ground. Similarly it starts flying well before rotation - the upwind wing will always rise up on you don't give it at least a little bit of correction before rotation. I have a new-found respect for those guys trying to land the things at the old Kai Tak airport in HKG a few decades ago.
Autothrust Blue
Welcome aboard the Washington State Ferries
"Hey how ya doin' approach PropTrash 5377 checkin in with you out of four point four for seven smoooooth any ride reports in the climb?"
Autothrust Blue
Welcome aboard the Washington State Ferries
The thing is, by taking that logic to an extreme, every takeoff becomes unacceptably risky. But I seem to remember we've hashed this out repeatedly and come to the same conclusion every single time, so meh.
:beer:
Tommay85
Well-Known Member
Uh, what??? That's not what I meant. I was talking more about the requirement of turbine time.
To hell if I'm ever going to fly a piston airplane for a living again.
Here goes the whole engine debate. The IO540 is a very reliable engine especially if managed properly by the pilot. Most of the issues that I was aware of that happened with that engine could be traced to poor management of the engine on the pilots part. Many people I flew with didn't have a clue on how to treat that engine properly which created many problems. Not trying to say the pilot group is ignorant or anything, many people just hadn't been trained very well on engine management.
We were allowed to fly at night though. In my book that is more risky than low IMC cause at least you would break out at some point right? So how is night flying justified as an acceptable risk in that case?
Oh. Oops! I get what you mean. Totally agree with you, then.Uh, what??? That's not what I meant. I was talking more about the requirement of turbine time.
To hell if I'm ever going to fly a piston airplane for a living again.
Tommay85
Well-Known Member
Yeah, those big 6s and turbo 6s don't put up with much foolery/idiocy. A guy at Flight Express shot the top of the head off surrounding the spark plug from shock cooling it so badly and repeatedly.
I suspect those big radials are a serious hand full.I think the funniest story I've ever heard regarding engines was an Ameriflight guy bringing a Chieftain in and tower apparently told him: "Your left engine is smoking more than your right one".
n57flyguy
Well-Known Member
Then why even acknowledge it?
///AMG
Well-Known Member
Scared pilot syndrome really bugs me. I flew with a guy once who would would let out a little yell and grab onto the nearest oh "crap" handle as hard as he could anytime we hit a pocket of turbulence. So annoying.
The only time I should've been scared in the last few years (but wasn't until after the fact) was the first time I tried to land a 747 in a 30 knot crosswind a few years ago. Of course this was at JFK on 4R which is about 8000 ft long (short for a 747 at 650,000 lbs, as we were that day). Winds 310@30. Why not use 31L or R? I don't know, it's New York, they don't do things that make sense
I touched down in a slight crab, one wing slightly low. I floated just a bit but greased the wing and body gear on about 2000 ft from the runway threshold....I relaxed and thought I was a pimp. Then the spoilers deployed and all hell broke loose. The left wing rose like mad and the nose started to rear up like any angry cobra. In no time the thing is damn near 10 degrees nose up on the runway and it feels like we're about to slide out of our seats to the right. Yeah......the captain had to help me get that one under control. Full nose down and left turn input on the yoke eventually brought the nose gear down with a "THUD", thanks in part to the autobrakes kicking in near max. Humbling, but lesson learned....the wing on the whale keeps flying long after it's on the ground. Similarly it starts flying well before rotation - the upwind wing will always rise up on you don't give it at least a little bit of correction before rotation. I have a new-found respect for those guys trying to land the things at the old Kai Tak airport in HKG a few decades ago.
I've got no time in jets > 50k lbs GW, but I will say that the scariest moments of my career have consistently only been scary after the fact. There are probably only 5-10 seconds at a time in this business where you are close to death, and you are too busy during that period to notice until later.
Boris Badenov
Fortis Leader
The thing that always got me about FLX was "now who was flying this thing BEFORE me?" That said, shock cooling was covered in indoc and it seemed like MOST people observed the "inch per minute" rule (was that it? Sounds familiar anyway...so long ago now).
norcalpilot25
Well-Known Member
I think the idea was/is that single engine ops is an accepted risk. With the understanding that this risk would be mitigated as much as practical.
Tommay85
Well-Known Member
There wasn't anything with the throttles except to be smooth. Any pilot worth their salt should only have to touch the things 3 times anyways right?
But they were really big on the mixtures when I was there. Very very very slow and patient leaning. No leaning below 3000MSL. Richening, one quarter turn per minute in the 210. Half a gallon per hour increase on the Baron per minute.
Boris Badenov
Fortis Leader
You got the advanced course. They just told us not to lean it. Ever.
I guess gas was cheaper back then and they figured it was cheaper to burn it like a rig fire than to let the moron yoke-actuators blow up the engines.
Aw you're gettin me all misty. Wonder what Austin P. Collins is doing these days? Probably riding his motorcycle in the rain and reciting Part 135 to himself verbatim from memory. Always liked that guy, which probably makes me just as weird.
I guess gas was cheaper back then and they figured it was cheaper to burn it like a rig fire than to let the moron yoke-actuators blow up the engines.
Aw you're gettin me all misty. Wonder what Austin P. Collins is doing these days? Probably riding his motorcycle in the rain and reciting Part 135 to himself verbatim from memory. Always liked that guy, which probably makes me just as weird.
Tommay85
Well-Known Member
Hahaha, I don't know. I think he became a line pilot after Airnet scooped up FLX. His facetube account doesn't say much. I never had a problem with the guy. Dry as hell and infuriating that a person on this planet knows all that he does.
Get him going about sailing and he's a normal dude. I'm 99% sure he was right about every 135/SOP discussion out there. Makes working at 'muriflight infuriating at times. Our POI definitely doesn't know what the hell he's talking about with some things...I miss the FLX pay and close proximity to all my friends and family, being based in Minneapolis and all. I don't miss flying to Omaha AND Wichita in a 210 though. The Baron made that OK, but the 210 was awful for that route. The Denver route made that look like a vacation though. I don't think anyone kept their sanity more than 2 months doing that run.
dasleben
That's just, like, your opinion, man
Scared pilot syndrome really bugs me. I flew with a guy once who would would let out a little yell and grab onto the nearest oh "crap" handle as hard as he could anytime we hit a pocket of turbulence. So annoying.
The only time I should've been scared in the last few years (but wasn't until after the fact) was the first time I tried to land a 747 in a 30 knot crosswind a few years ago. Of course this was at JFK on 4R which is about 8000 ft long (short for a 747 at 650,000 lbs, as we were that day). Winds 310@30. Why not use 31L or R? I don't know, it's New York, they don't do things that make sense
I touched down in a slight crab, one wing slightly low. I floated just a bit but greased the wing and body gear on about 2000 ft from the runway threshold....I relaxed and thought I was a pimp. Then the spoilers deployed and all hell broke loose. The left wing rose like mad and the nose started to rear up like any angry cobra. In no time the thing is damn near 10 degrees nose up on the runway and it feels like we're about to slide out of our seats to the right. Yeah......the captain had to help me get that one under control. Full nose down and left turn input on the yoke eventually brought the nose gear down with a "THUD", thanks in part to the autobrakes kicking in near max. Humbling, but lesson learned....the wing on the whale keeps flying long after it's on the ground. Similarly it starts flying well before rotation - the upwind wing will always rise up on you don't give it at least a little bit of correction before rotation. I have a new-found respect for those guys trying to land the things at the old Kai Tak airport in HKG a few decades ago.
Kinda funny, I have a somewhat similar story when I was going through IOE (the first time) on the 767. I'd been killing it with my 757 landings, and the last two legs were in the 767 over the North Atlantic. My first landing in the thing was into Shannon right at dawn; I put the mains down nicely, but slammed the nose on pretty good. Check airman (fantastic retired Delta guy) tells me: "Oh, don't worry. You'll get the feel of it. Just add a little backpressure next time."
Okay!
Next landing, my last leg of IOE: Beautiful day in DFW, calm winds. I touch the mains down smoothly, then...add backpressure. The nose comes straight back up into the air, and I almost have a heart attack (keep in mind, we all had the fear of god put into us about tail strikes over there). I managed to arrest the nose (and I know the check airman was on the controls then, too), and put it back down. I couldn't believe how embarrassed I was, not to mention the fact that I was sure the check airman was going to require more IOE due to that demonstration.
Him: "So...are you going to do that again?"
Me: "Ugh, hell no."
Him: "Good. Congrats on finishing IOE."
Never had trouble after that.
Boris Badenov
Fortis Leader
I don't think I'll be breaking any confidences if I simply say that Austin being a dude is way, way different from Austin being a Director Of Training, etc etc. Still dry, still definitely not your average guy, but sort of charming in a (very) weird way. I wish him well.
And yes, some of those longer routes in the 210 were uh, less than optimal. I only had a couple, and only as TDYs, but that was plenty.
PS. What about Ernst? I have a hard time imagining him doing anything but glowering from behind his desk in that horrible run-down hangar at Orlando Exec. Did he retire back to Norway (or at least, like, Minnesota) to go ice-fishing with Sven and Ollie?
Tommay85
Well-Known Member
Nah, that guy wanted to be an American cowboy. No idea though, but I'm sure he retired the day Airnet came down and gave everyone the boot. They were in a triple-wide hangar when I was there.
I don't think I've ever asked, but how long ago were you there and where were you based?