Rage Against The Machine
Well-Known Member
Whatever you say.
We'll wait and see ..!
And AMR Management doesn't expect guys to jump ship or call in sick?
- Thread starter derg
- Start date
We'll wait and see ..!
Rage Against The Machine
Well-Known Member
American Airline Pilots' Slowdown Wins a Victory, Despite What You Read in the DMN
By Jim SchutzeTue., Sep. 25 2012 at 10:42 AM
Mitchell Schnurman is a really good business reporter. The Dallas Morning News scored a major coup recently when it hired him away from the Fort Worth Star-Telegram. He's an ace, the author of serial scoops on airline industry management.
But as we see again in today's paper, Schnurman is strangely obtuse when he starts handing out moral advice to the rank and file. Schnurman posts yet another in what is fast becoming a regular series of preachy epistles to the pilots union, scolding them for their rogue slowdown action at American Airlines.
He says, "The negative publicity couldn't be much worse, as cancellations made national and local headlines. ... Plenty of pilots who are doing their jobs must be embarrassed, too. They often talk about getting the respect they deserve, especially from management, but these tactics put their interests ahead of everyone else's."
Funny. For all this finger-wagging and tch-tching in the paper this morning, I still don't see the real story about American Airlines. I am scouring my very expensive print version of the paper. Nope. Not there. I go back over the web page as well, navigating around the "Ask Mitch Manners" column to look for some news.
No. Not there, either. Maybe they'll move themselves to get it up by the time my item gets posted on Unfair Park.
So as a last resort I go to my usual source for big Dallas business stories that the local paper doesn't like: The Christian Science Monitor. Sure. There it is, big and bold! I thought I saw that mentioned on TV just before the lights went out in my head last night: Management at American has agreed to go back to the bargaining table with the pilots!
That's the real story today. That's the news. The headline at the top of the front page of any honest morning paper in this town today should be: IT WORKED!
Damn straight. By dragging the company out to the edge of the cliff -- and only by that! -- the pilots have been able to push a stubborn management team off its arrogant dime. Management was determined to cover its own incompetence with blood drained from the pilots' contract. The pilots showed them that the blood would be their own.
Is that really how it's done? Do you really threaten to harm the company if they won't talk? Do you really threaten to shut it down? Of course you do! How in the hell do we think labor ever got management to talk in the first place?
The labor movement and unions in this country have weakened to the point of near extinction in the last 20 years because union members have lost the courage and resolve that the American Airlines pilots found again in this dispute.
It ain't tiddlywinks. Americans were able to form unions and fight for decent pay in the first place only because workers weren't afraid of an ultimate shootout. They had the courage to go out to that line and face the management goons sent there to beat and even kill them, if that's what it took.
Maybe it's time for working and middle class Americans to stop *****ing about the plague of income disparity gnawing at the very fiber of our society. Maybe it's time people remembered that in this world you get what you're willing to fight for.
Not take. Not steal. Fight for. An honest day's wages for an honest day's work. And when management, acting under Wall Street rules, tries to turn that principle on its head -- comes up with a plan by which the CEO gets a larcenous bonus for doing a lousy job while labor gets the shaft -- then, yes, labor has to be ready to toe that ultimate line.
In today's America on any given day, it can seem like management has all the tricks and the ammo. They rewrite the laws themselves. They stack the courts with cronies. And they fill their newspapers with propaganda.
But as the American Airlines pilots have reminded us, labor always has the ultimate weapon. The one leverage. The last resort.
Shut it down.
By Jim SchutzeTue., Sep. 25 2012 at 10:42 AM
Mitchell Schnurman is a really good business reporter. The Dallas Morning News scored a major coup recently when it hired him away from the Fort Worth Star-Telegram. He's an ace, the author of serial scoops on airline industry management.
But as we see again in today's paper, Schnurman is strangely obtuse when he starts handing out moral advice to the rank and file. Schnurman posts yet another in what is fast becoming a regular series of preachy epistles to the pilots union, scolding them for their rogue slowdown action at American Airlines.
He says, "The negative publicity couldn't be much worse, as cancellations made national and local headlines. ... Plenty of pilots who are doing their jobs must be embarrassed, too. They often talk about getting the respect they deserve, especially from management, but these tactics put their interests ahead of everyone else's."
Funny. For all this finger-wagging and tch-tching in the paper this morning, I still don't see the real story about American Airlines. I am scouring my very expensive print version of the paper. Nope. Not there. I go back over the web page as well, navigating around the "Ask Mitch Manners" column to look for some news.
No. Not there, either. Maybe they'll move themselves to get it up by the time my item gets posted on Unfair Park.
So as a last resort I go to my usual source for big Dallas business stories that the local paper doesn't like: The Christian Science Monitor. Sure. There it is, big and bold! I thought I saw that mentioned on TV just before the lights went out in my head last night: Management at American has agreed to go back to the bargaining table with the pilots!
That's the real story today. That's the news. The headline at the top of the front page of any honest morning paper in this town today should be: IT WORKED!
Damn straight. By dragging the company out to the edge of the cliff -- and only by that! -- the pilots have been able to push a stubborn management team off its arrogant dime. Management was determined to cover its own incompetence with blood drained from the pilots' contract. The pilots showed them that the blood would be their own.
Is that really how it's done? Do you really threaten to harm the company if they won't talk? Do you really threaten to shut it down? Of course you do! How in the hell do we think labor ever got management to talk in the first place?
The labor movement and unions in this country have weakened to the point of near extinction in the last 20 years because union members have lost the courage and resolve that the American Airlines pilots found again in this dispute.
It ain't tiddlywinks. Americans were able to form unions and fight for decent pay in the first place only because workers weren't afraid of an ultimate shootout. They had the courage to go out to that line and face the management goons sent there to beat and even kill them, if that's what it took.
Maybe it's time for working and middle class Americans to stop *****ing about the plague of income disparity gnawing at the very fiber of our society. Maybe it's time people remembered that in this world you get what you're willing to fight for.
Not take. Not steal. Fight for. An honest day's wages for an honest day's work. And when management, acting under Wall Street rules, tries to turn that principle on its head -- comes up with a plan by which the CEO gets a larcenous bonus for doing a lousy job while labor gets the shaft -- then, yes, labor has to be ready to toe that ultimate line.
In today's America on any given day, it can seem like management has all the tricks and the ammo. They rewrite the laws themselves. They stack the courts with cronies. And they fill their newspapers with propaganda.
But as the American Airlines pilots have reminded us, labor always has the ultimate weapon. The one leverage. The last resort.
Shut it down.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
ClearedToThe
Well-Known Member
USAPA is probably a good start.
Autothrust Blue
"Well, on the Brasilia..."
I seem to remember an injunction about a sickout or slowdown in the desert, in the not too distant past...
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Dude, I'm not an attorney, so I can't remember those crazy names and numbers that you guys use for cases.
The most relevant as it relates to what AMR is alleging, though, would be the Delta case from about 10-12 years ago, where the 11th circuit actually ruled that ALPA didn't only have an obligation to not start job actions, but also had an affirmative obligation to stop job actions started by others. In that case, the alleged job action was a write-up campaign, and the judge ruled that anything violating the status quo, including increasing the number of maintenance write-ups, even if the write-ups were legitimate, is an illegal job action. I'm sure you can find the case number if you go digging, but I'm not even sure where you lawyer types look for that stuff.
TUCKnTRUCK
That guy
Dude, I'm not an attorney, so I can't remember those crazy names and numbers that you guys use for cases.
Here is my issue, The pilots are not the only one in the fight. The MX union is as well, and I promise you, they are not just "working their best" I was never afraid to toss something in the can. I would probably be more likely to if this had been forced upon me. The issue, is that the court is now stepping all over the FOP, because i'm sure the FAA made them put a statement in the books about noting EVERY discrepency in the MX log. not the "appropriate" items, or "carry it for a leg items. If I were from the FAA, and the airline I overseeing took the pilots to court for writting up broken items, It would set me on the war path. not just for the pilots, but, the safety second message that sends is way outside of the intent of the FAA.
If that happens, I hope to hell the FAA shuts them down.
Unsafe doesn't become Safe just because a judge says so.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
TUCK, that's what pilots have always said, but the FAA doesn't care, and the courts and arbitrators keep ruling the same way. Whenever asked, the FAA always responds simply "we don't get involved in industrial issues."
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
The Delta case is referenced in ALPA's Pilot-To-Pilot training. I know I have that powerpoint somewhere around here, but Todd is correct.
Court held ALPA responsible for not directly communicating to their pilots that it is illegal and to knock it off. From what I recall, a simple statement indicating that the DAL MEC does not and did not support any actions by their pilots would have been sufficient, but none were ever communicated.
Now, move on...just don't do it. I'm not interested in becoming a hostage because of some rogue jackass who has some vengence for the Company. Allow the Association to steer and command the negotiations, with input FROM the pilots. That's what you elected them (us) to do.
Court held ALPA responsible for not directly communicating to their pilots that it is illegal and to knock it off. From what I recall, a simple statement indicating that the DAL MEC does not and did not support any actions by their pilots would have been sufficient, but none were ever communicated.
Now, move on...just don't do it. I'm not interested in becoming a hostage because of some rogue jackass who has some vengence for the Company. Allow the Association to steer and command the negotiations, with input FROM the pilots. That's what you elected them (us) to do.
RPM
Well-Known Member
FAA seems to agree with the Pilots vs the Denise Lynn threat letter..
http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2012/09/faa-to-american-airlines-pilots-yes-were-watching.html/
The Federal Aviation Administration has sent this message to the Allied Pilots Association, and you can put your own interpretation on it:
“The AMR Certificate Management Office (AMR CMO) holds FAA oversight responsibility for the American Airlines air carrier operating certificate. This office is actively investigating all aspects of the current events outlined in your email, as well as the attached letter sent by American Airlines to the APA Leadership.
“The AMR CMO is currently conducting specialized Operational Risk surveillance on American Airlines’ operations. This surveillance is focused on frivolous maintenance discrepancy reports, misuse of the approved Minimum Equipment List, lack of adequate maintenance, time escalations, mishandling of aircraft trim settings, crew rest and duty time, disruption of airport ground operations and traffic flow, and falsification of maintenance discrepancy release statements. This specialized surveillance will remain in effect throughout the bankruptcy process. In short, the CMO is conducting surveillance on all regulatory requirements which are expected to be followed by the airline as well as the maintenance and pilot groups.
“If you feel you have been coerced to refrain from reporting maintenance discrepancies, we advise you to report any instance of such to the AMR CMO for investigation. We also encourage you to use the Aviation Safety Action Program to report such instances.”
RPM
Well-Known Member
https://public.alliedpilots.org/apa...nue-to-Report-Serious-Maintenance-Issues.aspx
ALLIED PILOTS ASSOCIATION: PILOTS CONTINUE TO REPORT SERIOUS MAINTENANCE ISSUES
Fort Worth, Texas (Sept. 28, 2012)—The Allied Pilots Association (APA), certified collective bargaining agent for the 10,000 pilots of American Airlines, issued the following response regarding recent management allegations that pilots continue to disrupt flight schedules with insignificant maintenance requests.
“Federal aviation regulations and American Airlines’ policies and procedures require that all known mechanical discrepancies be entered into the aircraft’s maintenance logbook for corrective action,” said APA President Keith Wilson. “Failure to place a mechanical discrepancy in the maintenance logbook can result in a revocation of a pilot’s license by the Federal Aviation Administration, not to mention the fact that it could result in a serious safety risk.”
American Airlines pilots continue to encounter a large number of serious maintenance-related issues that must be documented, as required by law. Below is a small sampling of issues that were documented pre-flight in the past several days:
Pilot oxygen mask broken
Main landing gear hydraulic leak
Aircraft avionics overheat warning
Fuel tank seepage on the ramp
Premature fuel burn indications
When proper preventative maintenance on the ground is not performed, it can lead to in-flight incidents such as the following, which were recently reported by our pilots:
A B-737 had a wheel well fire indication in flight and was forced to declare an emergency and returned to the departure airport.
A B-737 declared an emergency and was diverted to Amarillo due to a smoke and electrical smell in the cockpit while en route from Dallas/Ft. Worth to Denver.
There were bearing failures in the main landing gear on a B-767 requiring replacement of two wheels.
A B-767 experienced multiple landing gear indication malfunctions after takeoff and was forced to declare an emergency and land overweight at the departure airport.
There was a premature fuel burn from the left main wing tank causing a serious weight and balance issue.
Due to recent FAA fines and American’s ongoing financial struggles, the FAA has stepped up its scrutiny of the carrier’s maintenance procedures.
“American currently operates the oldest fleet of aircraft in the industry, requiring much more frequent maintenance than other carriers that operate newer fleets,” Wilson said.
This week, the FAA Certificate Management Office that monitors American Airlines sent a message to APA regarding its “specialized Operational Risk surveillance” on the airline. The message included the following statement directed to pilots: “If you feel you have been coerced to refrain from reporting maintenance discrepancies, we advise you to report any instance of such to the AMR CMO for investigation. We also encourage you to use the Aviation Safety Action Program to report such instances.”
Wilson said pilots are no doubt taking a prudent and cautious approach in their operational decision-making process ― especially in light of the fact that management canceled the AA-APA collective bargaining agreement and the protections it provided.
“Our pilots should never be pressured or bullied into not reporting any maintenance issues that could endanger the traveling public," Wilson said.
ALLIED PILOTS ASSOCIATION: PILOTS CONTINUE TO REPORT SERIOUS MAINTENANCE ISSUES
Fort Worth, Texas (Sept. 28, 2012)—The Allied Pilots Association (APA), certified collective bargaining agent for the 10,000 pilots of American Airlines, issued the following response regarding recent management allegations that pilots continue to disrupt flight schedules with insignificant maintenance requests.
“Federal aviation regulations and American Airlines’ policies and procedures require that all known mechanical discrepancies be entered into the aircraft’s maintenance logbook for corrective action,” said APA President Keith Wilson. “Failure to place a mechanical discrepancy in the maintenance logbook can result in a revocation of a pilot’s license by the Federal Aviation Administration, not to mention the fact that it could result in a serious safety risk.”
American Airlines pilots continue to encounter a large number of serious maintenance-related issues that must be documented, as required by law. Below is a small sampling of issues that were documented pre-flight in the past several days:
Pilot oxygen mask broken
Main landing gear hydraulic leak
Aircraft avionics overheat warning
Fuel tank seepage on the ramp
Premature fuel burn indications
When proper preventative maintenance on the ground is not performed, it can lead to in-flight incidents such as the following, which were recently reported by our pilots:
A B-737 had a wheel well fire indication in flight and was forced to declare an emergency and returned to the departure airport.
A B-737 declared an emergency and was diverted to Amarillo due to a smoke and electrical smell in the cockpit while en route from Dallas/Ft. Worth to Denver.
There were bearing failures in the main landing gear on a B-767 requiring replacement of two wheels.
A B-767 experienced multiple landing gear indication malfunctions after takeoff and was forced to declare an emergency and land overweight at the departure airport.
There was a premature fuel burn from the left main wing tank causing a serious weight and balance issue.
Due to recent FAA fines and American’s ongoing financial struggles, the FAA has stepped up its scrutiny of the carrier’s maintenance procedures.
“American currently operates the oldest fleet of aircraft in the industry, requiring much more frequent maintenance than other carriers that operate newer fleets,” Wilson said.
This week, the FAA Certificate Management Office that monitors American Airlines sent a message to APA regarding its “specialized Operational Risk surveillance” on the airline. The message included the following statement directed to pilots: “If you feel you have been coerced to refrain from reporting maintenance discrepancies, we advise you to report any instance of such to the AMR CMO for investigation. We also encourage you to use the Aviation Safety Action Program to report such instances.”
Wilson said pilots are no doubt taking a prudent and cautious approach in their operational decision-making process ― especially in light of the fact that management canceled the AA-APA collective bargaining agreement and the protections it provided.
“Our pilots should never be pressured or bullied into not reporting any maintenance issues that could endanger the traveling public," Wilson said.
falconvalley
Absentee Dad of the OOTSK, Runner, Cat Frustrator
It's very important to understand that a judge would have a hard time floating a ruling stipulating when a pilot can make a write-up, but CAN go after the representation regarding a sudden change in group behavior. The key thing is that the pilot group is REPRESENTED, therefore the leadership is responsible. If the APA has stated that they do not support illegal job actions, then they may have to prove how effective their leadership is in court. Depends on the desires of AA's counsel and the judge.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
It was like, swap into an aircraft,there's a mechanic onboard.
He's not fixing much because he's pressured to defer it and make it legal.
You're running late and you have this doofus "Operation Clockwork" that the agent is freaking out about to get the airplane boarded.
Catering hasn't arrived yet and the jet is still dirty. Stews are pissed.
Jet gets partially cleaning, catering hasn't arrived.
You get into the cockpit and find boatloads of MELs, many which contradict one another and say that "if X is working" it's legal, but X is MEL'ed as well so you call maintenance and they're busy.
Flight plan somewhat shorted you on fuel and you know you're going to end up holding going to Philly but flight control says "dude, you'll be sweet" so skipper is on the line trying to get a realistic fuel load.
You find more things wrong with the airplane, boarding is almost complete and the agent throws the final paperwork at you, the numbers are off and you never got the NOTAC about the dangerous goods,
That's what bankruptcy is like.
Every leg.
And it's always YOUR fault.
Nevermind the pleasure of walking into the Patel, dog tired after a multiple leg day of the above for a 9 1/2 hour layover and the hotel wants YOUR credit card imprint in case the airline doesn't pay the hotel.
Sent from my Colecovision Adam
He's not fixing much because he's pressured to defer it and make it legal.
You're running late and you have this doofus "Operation Clockwork" that the agent is freaking out about to get the airplane boarded.
Catering hasn't arrived yet and the jet is still dirty. Stews are pissed.
Jet gets partially cleaning, catering hasn't arrived.
You get into the cockpit and find boatloads of MELs, many which contradict one another and say that "if X is working" it's legal, but X is MEL'ed as well so you call maintenance and they're busy.
Flight plan somewhat shorted you on fuel and you know you're going to end up holding going to Philly but flight control says "dude, you'll be sweet" so skipper is on the line trying to get a realistic fuel load.
You find more things wrong with the airplane, boarding is almost complete and the agent throws the final paperwork at you, the numbers are off and you never got the NOTAC about the dangerous goods,
That's what bankruptcy is like.
Every leg.
And it's always YOUR fault.
Nevermind the pleasure of walking into the Patel, dog tired after a multiple leg day of the above for a 9 1/2 hour layover and the hotel wants YOUR credit card imprint in case the airline doesn't pay the hotel.
Sent from my Colecovision Adam
Autothrust Blue
"Well, on the Brasilia..."
is that because the maintenance is worse, or because of heightened oversight? If I were the FAA, I would surveil the crap out of a carrier in bankruptcy protection.
Sent from Seat 3D
