CaptainApollo
New Member
That much is becoming obvious.
AirTran/SWA Seniority Integration Deal
- Thread starter SlumTodd_Millionaire
- Start date
That much is becoming obvious.
CzechAirman
Well-Known Member
Bunker mentality at ALPA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z52psdD6Ry0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z52psdD6Ry0&feature=related
Rocketman99
Frozen Guppy Manipulator
Following this thread is just further reinforcing my desire to never ever work for Southwest. Geez...
CzechAirman
Well-Known Member
Mesa.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
No way, he's a Colgan lifer.
Rocketman99
Frozen Guppy Manipulator
Oh totally John, you know me!
Personally, I have no desire to spend my flying career flying a 737 or some future similar airframe point to point CONUS no matter how good the pay is (mind you the pay is only good now because everyone else's pay took a huge hit post 9/11). I'm sure they're a great airline, although I wonder about the pilot group after seeing all the holier than thou posts here and on APC. Thus my previous post. I'm hopong that's a just a function of internet rambos and not indicative of the pilot group as a whole. No disrespect fellas, but (payrates and Southwest PFT aside) your two carriers are pretty much one and the same.
In either case, I really hope this whole dispute sorts itself out in a way where everyone wins to the max extent possible. Just cause I don't love ya doesn't mean I don't want to see it work out.
Personally, I have no desire to spend my flying career flying a 737 or some future similar airframe point to point CONUS no matter how good the pay is (mind you the pay is only good now because everyone else's pay took a huge hit post 9/11). I'm sure they're a great airline, although I wonder about the pilot group after seeing all the holier than thou posts here and on APC. Thus my previous post. I'm hopong that's a just a function of internet rambos and not indicative of the pilot group as a whole. No disrespect fellas, but (payrates and Southwest PFT aside) your two carriers are pretty much one and the same.
In either case, I really hope this whole dispute sorts itself out in a way where everyone wins to the max extent possible. Just cause I don't love ya doesn't mean I don't want to see it work out.
One in the same? 80 some 717 to 500 737's. Yeah, they are the same alright. There group voted 90% to strike. We are not and will never be the same.
DE727UPS
Well-Known Member
I hope nobody makes career decisions based on what they see at anonymous internet websites. I've rode the SWA jumpseat quite a bit and have seen pilots consistently bend over backwards to help me out. I've also seen them go above and beyond the call on how they treat their customers. I mean, what other airline do you often see pilots helping out with the boarding process pushing a wheelchair? Pretty much never seen it at another airline expect SWA. Now, you have your 5%er's everywhere that tend to gravitate where they have an audience, like JC and APC. But I'd say my personal experience with the SWA pilot group is much better than average.
Me too. But they never write back.
I remember back in my JSing days, was trying to grab a ride on a UAL 737. I guess their policy was that they could only carry as many JSers as they had jumpseats onboard, regardless of how many open seats there may be in the back, and I ended up getting bumped for priority. Capt, while nice and friendly, wouldn't (and maybe couldn't, to be fair) budge on that, and of course that's completely his call to make, esp if it could get him in trouble. I wandered down to the other terminal to SWA, saw that there were already two JSers listed, and figured I was done. Gate agent said no problem, just fill this out and go talk to the Capt. Capt said come on board, grab a seat in the back. Go back there and there's an additional 8 or 9 JSers back there. Dont specifically know if their policy was different, or if the Capt was just being accomodating.
Rocketman99
Frozen Guppy Manipulator
OK, SWA has more planes, great. Oh and the fact their pilot group voted overwhelmingly to strike shows a pilot group with the balls to do what it takes to get it done and/or a management group that doesn't quite know how to get it done. Is the SWA pilot group that unified? Who knows, they've had the luxury of a management group that has known how to get the job done almost from day 1, kudos.
However, how many planes you have and how you management/employee relations don't factor here. At the end of the day, you're both still LCCs flying CONUS point to point routes using the same/similar aircraft (they have 737s too). There is no argument.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Ok, details are out, and it's really ugly. There is some minor improvements to seniority for a small portion of our pilots (450 stapled instead of 650, and some pilots gain about 1-2%, but many guys are still losing 30% of their relative seniority). In addition to the horrible seniority integration, they are bumping all of our 737 captains out of their seats, and AirTran pilots are only allowed to be captains on the 717. That means that about 350 of our captains (almost half) will be downgraded to FOs. In addition, the pilots on the 717 do not get the SWA pay rates. We are remaining on our own pay scale, and only the pilots that can hold the 737 will get the SWA rates. Furthermore, there will be no 737 base in Atlanta, so if you want to stay in ATL, then you're stuck on the 717 with the lower pay rates. We also lose our B-Fund pension at the beginning of the year, which means that we will have to contribute at least 10% of our own money to get the full company contribution to the 401k plan, while we didn't use to have to contribute anything to get 10.5% company contributions. There is more, but that pretty much sums up how bad it is. The road shows start tomorrow, and the pilot group vote will probably start at the beginning of next month.
SpiceWeasel
Tre Kronor
Sounds like the entire ATN MEC needs to be recalled for releasing this steaming pile to the group.
I'd vote "hell no".
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Nah, I don't blame them. They don't really have a choice. The pilot group is basically being threatened with non-integration if we don't take it. We're voting with a gun held to our heads. Not letting the pilot group vote under those circumstances wouldn't make much sense. The choice is basically take the crappy deal and get integrated, or don't take the crappy deal and possibly lose our jobs while we fight it out in court to enforce our scope protections and McCaskill-Bond for who knows how many years. The MEC can't make that decision on their own without a pilot group vote.
Yeah, I will, but I'm not sure how many other people will. Voting with a gun held to your head isn't quite the same as just being able to vote your conscience.
Polar742
All the responsibility none of the authority
Seriously?
I'd type more, but Doug would give me (rightfully) a red card, and maybe an expulsion. I'm not involved, and I'm ashamed, insulted and angry.
That's the best time to not be typing.
No worries about Doug.....Im the night shift mod.
Allow me a hypothetical: Would it be tinfoil hat-ish to believe that this second offer was going to be worse than the first in retaliation for the first one being turned down? And in turn, if this one is voted down, would all subsequent offers be worse than the previous in an effort to force acceptance at some point?
