Airline Pilots Are Glorified Bus Drivers

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ppragman said:
What do you think we are? The days of "fate is the hunter" are over,
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might want to go re-read "fate is the hunter". Gann was downgraded, furloughed, and had to start over at the bottom with a different airline. the ending was kind of depressing. the more things change the more they stay the same.

but on a happy note, airlines are not the only kind of flying jobs.
 
g4downin said:
I had a primary student a few years ago, who ,when posed with the question of why not become a professional pilot, responded with the "I don't want to be a glorified bus driver" statement. I thought to myself "ouch, that's my career your talking about". What do you all think of this proverbial slap in the face, when its spewed from the mouths of our fellow men and women? I want to get opinions on this! Do you think you're nothing more than a glorified bus driver? How would you respond?
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I once had a guy who called our company for a charter to Cheyenne. He wanted to leave right away so we loaded up in the 310 and he stated that he wanted to become a pilot until he realized that all they were was just bus drivers who ran an autopilot and he was much better than that. I didnt say much.

Weather was IMC, and I picked up some ice and the boots had their work out, shot the approach close to minimums. He was in the front seat with me, and needless to say he changed his attitude towards pilots instantly and had complete respect for them since that day.

And I ended up with 100$ tip :)
 
Fly_Unity said:
I once had a guy who called our company for a charter to Cheyenne. He wanted to leave right away so we loaded up in the 310 and he stated that he wanted to become a pilot until he realized that all they were was just bus drivers who ran an autopilot and he was much better than that. I didnt say much.

Weather was IMC, and I picked up some ice and the boots had their work out, shot the approach close to minimums. He was in the front seat with me, and needless to say he changed his attitude towards pilots instantly and had complete respect for them since that day.

And I ended up with 100$ tip :)
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Good story and excellent point!

We've had a handful of flights like that, where at the end of the flight the boss has said "I think it is absolutely amazing what you guys do!". It really means something from a guy like that who has been successful in every aspect of his life. It sure meant a lot to us.
 
wrxpilot said:
It is what you make of it. If you think you're a glorified bus driver, or in the same category as a Blockbuster clerk, than I guess you are. I'm a professional pilot, and I carry myself as one. As a result, I've never been told I was a glorified bus driver and have benefited from several decent jobs since starting my professional aviation career a few years ago.

It really is amazing to me how quickly some of you denigrate yourselves, while at the same time wondering why you're stuck in some crappy part of aviation (or unable to find meaningful employment). That isn't directed to you ppragman, just more of a general comment.
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What do you mean by this? Seriously.
 
Cav said:
I think he means if you want to be treated like a professional you have to look and act like one first. What's difficult about that to understand?
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That's how I took it.

To the OP: I don't care what moniker people give to the job. I love what I do and consider myself fortunate to be able to do it.
 
ZapBrannigan said:
When I first started working for USAir in 1999 -- my first major airline job and the brass ring I had been working towards for my entire life -- I was based in LaGuardia on the DC9 flying the shuttle. (It was an interim airplane between the 727 and A320 that they had there). DCA-LGA-BOS-LGA-DCA-LGA-BOS-LGA... all day. Every day. Unless you were sitting in a chair on airport standby.

It felt a lot like being a bus driver. Words are an interesting thing. Improper use... or use without thought can hurt even when they don't intend to. I think this may have been one of those cases.

Yes, flying for a living requires years of training and a high degree of knowledge, skill, and understanding. We operate these machines in a hostile environment - not only environmentally but also regulatory. The complexities of our job go far beyond the ability to safely fly the airplane. But, make no mistake, at the end of the day we are public transportation.

You in your airliner. Me in my business jet. Our only function is to act as a time machine. We reduce the amount of time it takes to get passengers and/or freight from point A to point B. The same trip could likely be made on bus, or train, or ocean liner, or dogsled. They choose aviation because it saves them time. So in that respect we ARE bus drivers.

But should that realization decrease your pride in what you've accomplished? Or your passion for the work that you do? I don't think so. I have no doubt that there are workers in every industry who share that passion. There are Greyhound bus drivers who are proud to drive their bus. There are cashiers who take pride in the "employee of the month" title and who strive for excellence every day at their job. How many semi-truck drivers are proud of the awards they receive after a million miles without an accident? They don't care that people look down upon them because they have pride in themselves.

A few months ago I was flying to Orlando with my family when I got to chatting with an RJ pilot on the train between terminals. He saw my FSI luggage tag and asked what I flew... who I flew for. I told him and he asked me when I was going to start applying to the regionals. His view was that a Learjet was a stepping stone to the regional jet. I didn't tell him that I made about four times his salary, or that I had flown the RJ years before, or even that I probably had more total time taxiing than he did flying. I don't need to prove myself to a stranger (except for you folks on JC). I just shrugged and said "maybe one day". Because i've been in this industry long enough to know that maybe one day I will find myself in that situation again. I hope not. Continuously going backwards in your career is a huge blow to the ego - believe me, I know. But, at the end of the day I fly airplanes. It's all i've ever done and with a little luck it's all I'll ever do. I move people between point A and point B in a metal tube, at high speed.

I'm a bus driver ... not that there's anything wrong with that. :)
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One of the best posts I've seen on this site so far. I second this completely
 
Bumblebee said:
What don't you understand? It's pretty clear to me, I carry myself as a professional as well.
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Ok, here's where I require clarification. Is this how you carry yourself on the job, or everywhere? What does it mean to "carry one's self as a professional pilot?" There are a lot of different kinds of "professional pilot," what does this mean, that I have to wear sunglasses at night, and look down my nose at ground crews and freight dogs? A banner-tow guy can be just as much of a professional than the RJ Captain, but they're going to carry themselves differently, and act differently at work.

I dunno, the picture that came to my mind is the guy who wears his sunglasses at night in the bar, and tells women he works for United when he actually works for Skywest in United Colors. "Professional Pilot" means a lot of different things depending on who you're talking to.
 
ppragman said:
Ok, here's where I require clarification. Is this how you carry yourself on the job, or everywhere? What does it mean to "carry one's self as a professional pilot?" There are a lot of different kinds of "professional pilot," what does this mean, that I have to wear sunglasses at night, and look down my nose at ground crews and freight dogs? A banner-tow guy can be just as much of a professional than the RJ Captain, but they're going to carry themselves differently, and act differently at work.

I dunno, the picture that came to my mind is the guy who wears his sunglasses at night in the bar, and tells women he works for United when he actually works for Skywest in United Colors. "Professional Pilot" means a lot of different things depending on who you're talking to.
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That's kind of a bad stereotype. The only guys I know who've done that (before being promptly corrected by their peers) were new regional FOs. Even then, those people are pretty few and far between. If you want a real airline pilot stereotype (and a great way to pick out crews on an overnight), look for the group of guys with matching black leather jackets, blue jeans, and white New Balance sneakers. :D
 
ppragman said:
Ok, here's where I require clarification. Is this how you carry yourself on the job, or everywhere? What does it mean to "carry one's self as a professional pilot?" There are a lot of different kinds of "professional pilot," what does this mean, that I have to wear sunglasses at night, and look down my nose at ground crews and freight dogs? A banner-tow guy can be just as much of a professional than the RJ Captain, but they're going to carry themselves differently, and act differently at work.

I dunno, the picture that came to my mind is the guy who wears his sunglasses at night in the bar, and tells women he works for United when he actually works for Skywest in United Colors. "Professional Pilot" means a lot of different things depending on who you're talking to.
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I would say the persona is quite the opposite actually. We could (and probably have a couple of 1000 times) devote an entire thread to the topic. I don't know how to state it but I do know when I see it. I also know when I'm not witnessing a professional or working with one.
 
Doug Taylor said:
As long as we crawl over one another to provide the labor, that's not going to change much.

If you cut a truck driver's pay by 50% and then sublet more than half of his routes to an even lower paid subsidiary, that trucker would probably grab his crotch like L'il Wayne, tell you to suck it and go to plumbing school.

In the aviation business, we'd fall over ourselves to justify why it was all necessary and how long until that sweet, sweet upgrade so they can pay off their student loans a little faster.
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Don't put me in this category. I've never taken any job for less than a living wage. I've never taken a job where I made less than my last job even when unemployed. Same goes for QOL. I know there are a lot of pilots out there that do lower the bar but that isn't me. If you see a guy walking accross the ramp grabbing his crotch like Lil Wayne it's likely me :)

I'm towin the line beeotttcccchhhheess!
 
ppragman said:
Ok, here's where I require clarification....what does this mean, that I have to wear sunglasses at night, and look down my nose at ground crews and freight dogs?
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. Is that a professional demeanor? Not in my Universe, or any parallel Universe that I'm aware of.
ppragman said:
A banner-tow guy can be just as much of a professional than the RJ Captain, but they're going to carry themselves differently, and act differently at work.
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exactly....when I am at work in the summer, I wear shorts and a Tshirt during the day at the tanker base, but I still carry myself as a professional pilot. That means I am respectful, and humble and treat everyone, from the ramp supervisor to the newest mud dog with respect. I was called to go fly right seat in the King Air and shuttle our CEO home, so I wore a nice pair of khakis and an aviator shirt ( no epaulettes of course) with a tie and my nice leather jacket. My demeanor was more like when I flew charter King Airs, get the ice, make sure coffee was hot and there was a paper, and the greetings were more business like than Firefighter like.
ppragman said:
I dunno, the picture that came to my mind is the guy who wears his sunglasses at night in the bar, and tells women he works for United when he actually works for Skywest in United Colors. "Professional Pilot" means a lot of different things depending on who you're talking to.k]
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the guy you describe above is a jerk, not a professional, and is frankly an embarrassment. Why you would view hm as a professional is beyond logic... :)
 
MikeD said:
The ultimate hypocrisy of pilots in the airline business.

"Those bad regionals are ruining the airline industry, wages and QOL. They're bottom feeders and killing the profession!......

Oh look.......Commutair/Colgan/etc are hiring! I've got to get my app in NOW!!!"
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Ya beat me to it Mike, I also think it is funny how RJ pilots think they are superior to turbo-prop pilots.
 
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