UAL/CAL Arbitrator decision delivered

just talked to a guy with alpa, stated the arbritation board would issue a stay on the decision in the "interests of free air travel" since the lack of time between the decision and scheduled flying. His opinion not mine. But their has been past case law to back him up. So most likly see a stay on mon/tues to allow flying for a period of time to restructure schedule.
 
Stryder said:
please expound. does it apply to just jets or any plane over 50 seats?
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Jets only. There are already regional airplanes flying under CAL over 50 seats. When he said "Mesaba," he's talking post-merger Colgan/Mesaba. This prevents Uninental from utilizing 70 seat RJs on the routes, but it doesn't close the loophole of tossing a Q400 on there....
 
jtrain609 said:
Meaning?
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It took a long time to get the procedures and training approved for it. I know you know this, but it's not as simple as "the airplane can do it"--special procedures had to be designed, and there's a separate Aspen-qualified pilot group with separately constructed pairings. It's a pretty big expenditure to keep the program going.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
How exactly do you code share without the use of the CO code?

This ruling is a perfect example of why pilots need ALPA. The resources ALPA brought to fight this violation were immense, and it's a very important victory.
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Rather then carrying a Continental code, theyll just fly as a United Flight number. Im just interested to see if they back off of this technique long term or if United/CAL push the issue.
 
Kingairer said:
Rather then carrying a Continental code, theyll just fly as a United Flight number. Im just interested to see if they back off of this technique long term or if United/CAL push the issue.
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Our management is pretty darn good at getting around the 'spirit' of written words. We'll see how this one plays out but I'm not excited about it.
 
zmiller4 said:
It took a long time to get the procedures and training approved for it. I know you know this, but it's not as simple as "the airplane can do it"--special procedures had to be designed, and there's a separate Aspen-qualified pilot group with separately constructed pairings. It's a pretty big expenditure to keep the program going.
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I can see XJT doing this relatively quickly. We already run similar operations with our RNAV qualified guys.

We pretty much rock when it comes to ramping up new-style operations in extremely short periods of time. Branded, JetBlue, United, Delta, Lynx, Branson, not to mention the fact that our Charter guys have put these planes in places that most of us line guys could only dream of. It's easy to rag on our training department and our management for the decisions they've made in the past... but one thing we've always done well is "startup ops" no matter what the mission.

Heck... at one point we were going to be flying the 145 in Afganistan... True story.

Bob
 
Let the flame roll, but just lurking through the thread, why is this a big deal? (Read: no background in union labor or regional for that matter)

Also, as for the RJs and specific airports, why the certain procedures? If the plane has the performance and the pilots are qualified on whatever the equipment, why wouldn't they be able to just pick up flights and go?

Let the flame roll...
 
Its a big deal because UA just announced a BUNCH of routes using CRJ-700s and EMB-170s from EWR/IAH, and now pax can't connect onto CO on these flights leaving from CO hubs, they'll all be empty. They'll have to put 50 seaters on planned 70 seat routes to mix planes around, and have 70 seaters going out with 20 open seats all the time and 50 seaters going out oversold and weight restricted from IAH and EWR. They'll probably axe the flying out of IAH and EWR as UAX all together. A nightmare for management, and epic win for the pilots.
 
scooter2525 said:
Also, as for the RJs and specific airports, why the certain procedures? If the plane has the performance and the pilots are qualified on whatever the equipment, why wouldn't they be able to just pick up flights and go?
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It's not just RJs. A lot of airports require special authorization training. In the case of ASE it has to do with the approach mins and your single engine missed and extraction procedure if needed.
 
BobDDuck said:
It's not just RJs. A lot of airports require special authorization training. In the case of ASE it has to do with the approach mins and your single engine missed and extraction procedure if needed.
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Is there even an extraction procedure? I've always assumed with Aspen that if you enter that valley, you're landing come hell or high water.
 
I don't know if Skywest uses it or not, but I've seen one published for RJ7s. It DOES NOT guarantee you terrain clearance though.
 
Kingairer said:
Rather then carrying a Continental code, theyll just fly as a United Flight number. Im just interested to see if they back off of this technique long term or if United/CAL push the issue.
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That defeats the entire purpose of what they're trying to do. Until they have a single operating certificate, they need to be able to code share with each other in order to get passengers from a CAL to UAL flight. If they can't put their code on a UAX 170, then they can't book a CAL passenger through to that flight. The passenger would first have to book a flight on CAL to IAH, then call UAL and book a separate flight on UAL from IAH to wherever. It's a nightmare for management and the customers. It was a major victory for the pilots.
 
Chasen, a win for the pilots because that means more flying for them, more planes etc? Or could the flying be returned to the mainline?
 
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