BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
Probably not. That's the difference between an association and a union.
UAL/CAL Arbitrator decision delivered
- Thread starter bike21
- Start date
Probably not. That's the difference between an association and a union.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
I know it's been explained a 1000 times on here, but we all know how good I listen: Why is it we can't be a real union?
Pilotforhire587
Lycra Man
Great new for all of us small guys flying under the CO codeshare. WOOHOO I am glad the pilots one another one!
Baronman
Well-Known Member
I guess you could call it a victory for pilots, they won the arbitration. But at the end of the day United Express (Skywest and Republic) 70 seat RJs will be flown out of CAL hubs, handled by CAL agents and ground crews.
You have to applaud CAL pilots, despite having a sub-par contract (concessionary), they had held the line at 50 seats...It finally took a merger and management finagling to get these 70 seat aircraft at their doorstep.
You have to applaud CAL pilots, despite having a sub-par contract (concessionary), they had held the line at 50 seats...It finally took a merger and management finagling to get these 70 seat aircraft at their doorstep.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
We had to have special training and certification to fly into HLN, but it wasn't a huge deal. They just tossed it into the sim syllabus, pointed you to the CCI page in the LIDOs for the single engine out procedure, and the FAA called it good. Not sure what it would be for Aspen, but if it's something similar to that, I could see it getting spun up and done pretty quickly. Didn't take us much to get Cat II done, and we're crappy ole Pinnacle Airlines. 
If United pulls a fast one (and it looks like they will and get away with it), I hope the United/CAL guys fight even harder on scope in the joint agreement....
If United pulls a fast one (and it looks like they will and get away with it), I hope the United/CAL guys fight even harder on scope in the joint agreement....
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
We had to have special training and certification to fly into HLN, but it wasn't a huge deal. They just tossed it into the sim syllabus, pointed you to the CCI page in the LIDOs for the single engine out procedure, and the FAA called it good. Not sure what it would be for Aspen, but if it's something similar to that, I could see it getting spun up and done pretty quickly. Didn't take us much to get Cat II done, and we're crappy ole Pinnacle Airlines.
If United pulls a fast one (and it looks like they will and get away with it), I hope the United/CAL guys fight even harder on scope in the joint agreement....
And if they can not be successful there...then they better be paid off pretty damn well.
Fewer and fewer mainline jobs if these guys do not end up successful. Sure, retirements will begin to give many of us the opportunity to escape regional pergatory, but if it's not honest growth then I really don't want to just sit through the next 40 plus years in this career watching mainline pilot group sizes remain stagnant. We need greater jobs at mainline, being paid better wages (beyond 9/11 concessionary contracts...get some snapbacks to pre-9/11 contracts...), with significant improvements in QOL matching those that were lost following 9/11.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
No, the RLA requires "fly it and grieve it." Struck work is the exception, but this isn't struck work.
No, being called an Association has nothing to do with it. It's all a matter of following the law under the RLA. The difference between Association and union is nothing but a name.
We ARE a real union.
Yes, but not with CAL passengers. That's what really matters.
ChasenSFO
hen teaser
Just ask the gate agent to pull up the flight info, one keystroke and it instantly lists all the flight numbers it is marketed as.
I can't wait until people misconnect in IAH going to a UAX destination. "My Continental flight to San Francisco canceled, luckily Aspen is my final destination and you guys have a flight to Aspen boarding next door. What? What do you mean I can't be rebooked on it?! It's United! You guys are all United? Right? Right?!". I wonder how many complaint letters UA is gonna get in those scenarios.
Good times.
Thought this was interesting:
Those pre-9/11 wages and work rules is pretty much the primary reason that those jobs no longer exist. They priced themselves out of the market.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Well, I hope you don't, but you're telling me what you'd like; I'm telling you the reality of things. The reason major airline jobs were so coveted; the high pay and good work rules, is what pretty much decimated them. Granted it's not the only reason, but when your company is unprofitable, it doesn't really matter what you want; you have to deal with things as they are. The reality is that the major airline jobs ain't what they used to be, and they are likely not ever going to be that way again, so you have a choice: accept reality, or find something else to do. Complaining how things "should" be accomplishes nothing. That's for children.
I see your point and agree that things post 9/11 have indeed taken a big nosedive, with the economy in general and the industry in particular. But at the same time, while things now aren't what they used to be, as the economy begins to improve and by default, the industry too, why shouldn't guys try to work to get the best they can pay/QOL wise? If not to pre-9/11 levels, at least as close as they can reasonably get? Because what guys are making now in the regional industry, compared to the responsibility they have and the training they undertook to get there and that they utilize daily; the overall compensation they're getting is in many cases deplorable. If they can reasonably improve any of these aforementioned conditions, there's no reason they shouldn't try.
Screaming_Emu
Well-Known Member
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
O&M, I'll be honest. I'd be much more willing to actually listen to your ramblings if they were not so ridiculous. That said, I really don't care about your personal opinions about the abilities of labor to collectively bargain for improved wages, benefits, and job protections. You won't see any mention about how things "should" be either, so...thanks for the lecture. Those are, in my mind, the basic goals that our respective collective bargaining agents ARE working towards.
You can wrap yourself around the cloak of Give Business Everything while Employees eat poop sandwiches, I - and many others here - prefer to fight aggressively for OUR profession. You, a third party, with no vested interest, can continue to try to explain to us why we are wrong and why we should give in and quit fighting - but none of us will really just wake up one day and buy your pro-business / anti-labor philosophy.
I'm not after hitting short term, quarterly, financial goals. I'm after hitting long term financial stability for myself and family - which may be a foreign concept to you since you're so willing to allow an employer to squeeze you until you can't breath or sustain a lifestyle you've built. Or, then again, maybe you are running a couple companies and want to make sure you can pocket as much of your profits as possible...continuing the excellent class divide that exists around the world. Congratulations sir.
In the end, you continue to preach about the reality of serving a role as management or Capitalist and the rest of us here - who do this for a living - will continue to remind you why we do care a great deal about our ability to sustain the improvement of our PROFESSION.
But dude...you get to fly a JET!
Ah . . . right . . . not.
Employees always hinder profits to pro-business ideologues.
Rocketman99
Frozen Guppy Manipulator
I'm not saying they shouldn't it. Knock yourselves out. I'm just saying that the past performance of ALPA and pilots trying to "improve" things has not yielded a lot of positive results. Every step forward seems to be followed by two steps back. So knowing that, it seems pretty unrealistic to think that things will somehow magically improve, which is why I say look at things as they are, not as you wish they were.