Ron Paul introduces: American Traveler Dignity Act

WacoFan said:
Harry Truman wasn't a dynamic speaker either - but he was a great President. JFK was an EXCEPTIONAL speaker - probably the best of the last 50 years - but not a great President (little tangible accomplishment). Obama is not a great speaker, but can deliver a great speech sometimes (while campaigning). Point is, great speakers are entertaining while they are giving the speech but that's about it. Lincoln was not viewed as a great speaker yet wrote and delivered some amazing speeches (and they were short - the second inaugural and the Gettysburg Address - proof that long-winded oratory does not translate automatically into "great"). Keep these things in mind when judging Paul's clip - the substance (the Bill) is significantly more important than oratory or stagecraft. Learn the lesson of 2008.
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Well said Waco. It's not how well you speak, but the message that is delivered. And his message was clear, "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!"

Murdoughnut said:
Flying on a plane is a fundamental liberty?
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It may or may not be. But the TSA has over steped their bounds and is subjecting EVERONE who flies to unresonable searches. Go ahead and spin it any other way, because you will meet strong resistance.


It may just take an "Opt out day" around the holidays, and many many people not having Thanksgiving dinner with their families for our government to get the point on this issue. The TSA has no system of checks and balances. When security at airports has turned into "we can't tell you haw these machinces work or their radiation levels because that is classified" is wrong. What are they hiding from us? It's similar to the cover up of the Rocketdyne incident in my home town where in the 50's an experimental nuclear reactor melted down and it was hidden from the pouplation for years. Do some research on it, you'll see how much it has been covered up. Just another example of how things get covered up and misconstrued.




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z987k said:
I know, Anne coulter has a thing out I agreed with today. wtf.
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Ugh, you just made me vomit... :)

Flying on a plane is a fundamental liberty?
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While no explicit right of freedom of movement is written into our Constitution (Europeans and especially Scandinavians have it, mind you) I would argue that it is an essential part of the American economy.
 
Wouldn't an opt-out day only hurt the airlines? Airlines who are probably just as opposed to the screening as passengers?
 
Murdoughnut said:
Wouldn't an opt-out day only hurt the airlines? Airlines who are probably just as opposed to the screening as passengers?
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It may, but what are they doing about the problem right now? The unions are helping a little by asking their pilots opt out, but what about tha passengers. Sometimes you have to give them a message where the will see the most impact, and for airlines, it's their profits.
 
Murdoughnut said:
Flying on a plane is a fundamental liberty?
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Declaration of Independence said:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
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Coming out of JC retirement to post this shows what type of hatred I have for TSA. Ron Paul is right, enough is enough. If flying a plane isn't the pursuit of happiness, then kill me now.
 
I'm going to be the "Bad Guy (tm)" here and say that I've been on the road for about a week and a half and have seen no difference between yesterday and last year.

The TSA is largely an institution saucy and popular to bitch about.

It's an opportunity for those in DC to say "Look mommy, we're doin' something!" meanwhile we actually haven't done much in the last few years to improve passenger and cargo security.
 
Doug Taylor said:
I'm going to be the "Bad Guy (tm)" here and say that I've been on the road for about a week and a half and have seen no difference between yesterday and last year.

The TSA is largely an institution saucy and popular to bitch about.

It's an opportunity for those in DC to say "Look mommy, we're doin' something!" meanwhile we actually haven't done much in the last few years to improve passenger and cargo security.
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How many times and at how many domestic airports did you go through security at? Were there "crew" lines or CrewPass at any of them?

Not being picky, just trying to gauge the picture.

I go to IAD on Monday, will be interested to see what I see at IND & IAD....
 
New York City Councelman has introduced legislation to ban scanners in new york city... including the airports.

[video=youtube;i9Bj4ZLkzDc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9Bj4ZLkzDc[/video]

Also of note is that he mentions that a major airport in florida has opt-get out of TSA screeners. Off the look into that.

edit: apparently it is Sanford, FL
 
Actually not that many airports. A couple of terminals at JFK, a couple in PHX. In the last year maybe only ATL, EWR, DTW and well, Las Vegas is "special".

I've had "pat downs" in the past, both domestically and internationally. Hell, if you get patted down in Amsterdam, you might as well throw them a bottle of Astroglide, 20 Euros and ask for a happy ending because they're grabbing all yo' junk.

On a global level, I didn't see anything worthy of "OMG! It's the end of the world" and the method seems less extreme than other countries with a much lower terror threat.

All I'm asking for is less hyperbole an more scientific method and common sense. Patting down a 10 year old seems doofus in the macro sense, but realistically speaking does anyone think Al Quada hasn't thought of using a blond hair, blue-eyed eastern European as a contraband mule? Find the course of least suspicion and exploit the weakness.

Or we've got a choice. Accept terrorist events as occasional anomalies in the security screen, clean up and motor on with your lives like the Israelis do or take a zero tolerance, (hopefully) asymptotically approaching zero attitude towards it and occasionally get your bag dug through.

I think it's somewhere in the middle. We haven't had our last event, by far. The approach to wholly preventing events from occurring is unpalatable with our expectations of liberty so it's somewhere in the middle in my eyes.
 
Doug Taylor said:
I'm going to be the "Bad Guy (tm)" here and say that I've been on the road for about a week and a half and have seen no difference between yesterday and last year.

The TSA is largely an institution saucy and popular to bitch about.

It's an opportunity for those in DC to say "Look mommy, we're doin' something!" meanwhile we actually haven't done much in the last few years to improve passenger and cargo security.
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With the exception of the naked scanners I would agree.

If the naked scanners wouldn't have picked up the panty bomber - why does TSA need to see my junk? As far as the frisking I would say it's the same. Delightfully, erotically the same.
 
Doug Taylor said:
On a global level, I didn't see anything worthy of "OMG! It's the end of the world" and the method seems less extreme than other countries with a much lower terror threat.

All I'm asking for is less hyperbole an more scientific method and common sense. Patting down a 10 year old seems doofus in the macro sense, but realistically speaking does anyone think Al Quada hasn't thought of using a blond hair, blue-eyed eastern European as a contraband mule? Find the course of least suspicion and exploit the weakness.
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I agree... but I hate the charade and complete B.S. that is everything about the TSA. I will take anything that gets the public up in arms about it, in an effort to get back to things that work while not violating everyone's rights.
 
WacoFan said:
With the exception of the naked scanners I would agree.

If the naked scanners wouldn't have picked up the panty bomber - why does TSA need to see my junk? As far as the frisking I would say it's the same. Delightfully, erotically the same.
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I've been thru the naked scanners overseas, especially after the Nigerian Panty Bomber. I wasn't that impressed! :)
 
z987k said:
I agree... but I hate the charade and complete B.S. that is everything about the TSA. I will take anything that gets the public up in arms about it, in an effort to get back to things that work while not violating everyone's rights.
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Do NOT clip 'n paste because this entire post needs the proper context

But here's the trick.

Do NOT take this as a defense of the TSA.

But if Ruth's Chris requires that I wear a coat to eat in their restaurant, I can choose to dine at The Sizzler without the jacket requirement.

If I think the TSA is being unreasonable, as a passenger, I can avoid screening by riding the train.

Again, the public being "up in arms" and engaged can be a good thing, as long as they're armed with science, reason and reality.

A torch and bat wielding mob is awesome, but not when they're out chasing witches around Salem.
 
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