Mesaba flowthrough
- Thread starter jynxyjoe
- Start date
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
I heard Aug 16 seniority date but a TBA class date, but my source could be wrong. Either way, glad the agreement was honored. Question I have is, what happens to the flow when the SLI happens? Having some of your guys flow and the rest not could cause some interesting pairings for trips. Also, what happens if the "flowback" provisions get used? Guys at 9E/9L could find themselves junior to a Delta FO that flowed back through no fault of their own. This mess just gets curiouser and curiouser.
crazyjaydawg
Well-Known Member
As I recall the only flowback agreement is with Compass.
Also I think Jynx was trying to say only one is going to class on Aug16 and they all have a DOH of Aug16
Also I think Jynx was trying to say only one is going to class on Aug16 and they all have a DOH of Aug16
jynxyjoe
Queso King
Yeah he said it better. Gotta get my volcab straight.
Hope jaydawg made more sense.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
The flowback is for an equal number up as down (as it stands right now). Also I should add they are still negotiating this flow. Very easily Delta could flip us off and say, "we're taking this last nine, and we do mean LAST." Besides, if I understood the Delta guy I talked to, they could end the flow with both Compass and Mesaba, and then all those 76'ers would be Mainline's. I drooled a little at that prospect. TAKE THEM ALL BACK!
What exactly are Pinnacle pilots concerns with our flow? I'm trying to figure out what the problem is exactly. To me it just seems like a negotiated perk of our contract. Is it a bad perk for Pinnacle or something?
Stryder
Well-Known Member
I honestly don't want flow at pinnacle. Flowing up can be a dangerous proposition. I have heard rumors, all unsubstantiated since this is the first set, that there are check airmen at Delta who plan on not letting any Compass or Mesaba guys through their probationary period at Delta. So you flow up and then get pushed out to the street because they didn't like the idea of a pilot just getting a job at Delta simply because they worked at Mesaba or Compass. It has happened before.
To think there wont be any animosity towards the guys that flow up is not really recognizing that there are Delta pilots that do not want this and would like to see it end, one way or another. It just makes me nervous, thats all.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
Well I do agree there are Delta guys that don't want us to have a flow. I have a friend, ex-colgan, who has adamantly disagreed with the Flow.
/start However
You realize there are guys from Mesaba who have flowed up already and working for the new Delta right? They've reported no such problems.
A few Delta pilots have already stated their outright disapproval of Northwest guys too, "N.E.R.D." and other such stickers and catcalls. To my knowledge the Delta pilot group has worked to squelch out that sentiment.
There is no way to remove the hatred in heart, if it exists in some of the pilot group. There's also no way to remove the foolish comments made on this forum about Riddle, nor is there any way to change the minds of those who feel that way. I just deal with it, it takes very little effort on my part. I imagine it would take about as much effort for me and others, in the future, if we got to flow.
You'd think the 7 year recovery on earnings would be enough of a punishment for flowing to Delta. If some of the Delta guys need to give us noogies too then so be it. I'm sorry they won't be able to fill the class entirely with ASA guys (after filling it with military first, but that goes without saying). They may have to put up with a few of us outsiders, a very few.
/end however
Forgive me on any spelling or grammar, no glasses right now.
Stryder
Well-Known Member
I agree with you, I think its ridiculous at some of the stuff I have heard. Instead of helping a fellow pilot out some just want to hold them down. Its not good for anyone. It just makes me nervous to think if I took the flow that I would get the oe captain thats first question would be, Did you flow up here or were you hired. Unfortunately flowing up is a career decision. It just one that should be good but some have turned it into something dirty.
Cptnchia
Dissatisfied Customer
NERD and every other disparaging acronym for the fNWA guys was created and started by the fNWA guys as a way of distancing themselves from the fDAL guys. (According to the three north captains I've flown with.) Except RD, which came from the Western merger.
I have not heard a single south pilot say that the north pilots don't deserve to be on the same seniority list. We do have some tools that do try to start trouble, but they are on both sides.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
The North CA I sat in a jumpseat with said the opposite. That was way back in winter though, my memory is probably MEL'ed.
I thought the "hired, not aquired" and "NERD" stickers were all the same batch of guys?
Honestly, I'm not able to keep up on all the inner pilot group politics, I should have been more concerned with the validity of my earlier statement
Cptnchia
Dissatisfied Customer
NERD is supposed to mean, "Never Ever Real Delta", and as far as I can find out, originated with some northern pilots using it to describe themselves. The "Hired, not Aquired," is supposed to be from a sticker that some NY based pilots are supposed to have on their bags, but I've never seen one nor anyone I know has.
Much like the "checks" callout, (good riddance!) each side blamed the other for it when neither side was responsible, but some nimrod individual in management.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
Hehe. Reminds me of an old comedian (God help me if I can remember the name). "Why do we all keep blaming each other for our problems? White, black, red- whatever! We should be putting the blame, not on one another, but on the people responsible for all our problems: The French!*"
*French to indicate management in this stolen and paraphrased joke
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
I don't see it as a bad perk. Might get me off reserve in....well, a year and a half or so.
I think a lot of it is a case of "they've got something we don't" syndrome. Other than the nightmare that would be the administrative issues of keeping up with it, I personally don't have a problem with it. I'd rather focus on getting a decent contract here. After what I heard at the LEC meeting tonight, it sounds like the senior guys are ready to just vote anything in at this point, though. We may get a contract, but I don't know if it's gonna be any good. Hopefully, a crap one won't make it to a pilot vote.....again.What was "checks"?
jynxyjoe
Queso King
I don't see it as a bad perk. Might get me off reserve in....well, a year and a half or so.
Well, I know pilots are a fickle bunch, but my experience with Pinnacle pilots has been nearly the same (paraphrase);
"So I hear the flow goes backwards? How long till they furlough you?"
"Yup, the flow goes backwards, won't get furloughed anytime soon. We'd have to flow a couple years worth of guys."
"I don't know man, sounds bad."
"Well you'd have to read our flow language, it's a lot different than Compass."
"I don't know man."
"Ok"
I doubt the majority of Pinnacle pilots want our flow. What's the deal with ya'll senior guys? What have they got to lose? Or are they eye'ing those -900's of ours thinking "OHS MY GODZ, THERES MY'S RAISE!!"?
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Our senior guys aren't going anywhere. They're gonna either die and be buried in MEM or MSP. Even the top guys in ATL mostly commute from MEM. Some can't afford the pay cut to start over at the bottom of the list at Delta. From the meeting last night, it's almost entirely "Where's mine?" from the senior guys. I can understand the fact they want their money, but they're ready and willing (from the sound of things) to sign whatever the company comes across with. The things left on the table (other than health care which the company re-opened) don't affect them, so they're trying to push the union to just settle so they can tell their wives they can buy the new dress, shoes and matching handbag.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
Alrighty. I figured as much. O well. The race to the bottom continues.
Most of our senior guys really can't afford to start all over again at Delta, however, since the buyout they are tearing up the MEC and LEC lines asking them to redo the flowup bid so that they can have another shot (at least that's what I'm being told by senior guys). Almost universally the first 110 or so said "NO" to the flowup. Like I say, things are different now, but we'll see what our senior guys say if they can get it re-bid. I imagine more than half will part.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Honestly, if I were the MEC, I'd say "Look, we're having enough trouble just trying to get it to STAY. You snooze, you loose." What's the wording? Is it a one shot deal, or can you bypass the flow once? And the senior guys call US the "me first" generation.....
higney85
Property of Scheduling
Look, flow can be great but it's far easier for the union to say "no thanks" opposed to "PLEASE". The problem is never the flow UP, it's the possibility of DOWN and many times it's the company that won't agree to it before an MEC. As I understand things both DL and PNCL are still working on the flow and DL is pushing the DOWN aspect LESS due to planned attrition (even with no growth) due to retirements as the age 65 bubble is going away. Before anyone gets up in arms this is an active discussion that will hopefully bear fruit for all in DCI. In terms of XJ when all things are said and done they will not be a DCI carrier, yet 9E (where the jets and many pilots will go) will be the largest DCI ALPA carrier. Flow has been a goal and worked on for some time with DALPA with the goal being able to move up from DCI to DL over time. We all fly through the same hubs and network making it a transition that only makes sense- which making "sense" in airlines brings it's inherent issues.