Pinnacle Corp., buys Mesaba

[higney85]

Guy I'm sitting next to right now would be junior to 5 of those guys on the list. Not necessarily on the "bottom" of the 9E list, but it's only a difference of about 3 months on the raises. Then again, we're not considered "employees" here until we pass the checkride, so our pay rates are determined from a different date than XJ's guys. Yet one more thing that probably is slipping through the cracks.

Are you keeping in mind the DOH isn't the part that they are bringing? It's time served- so that "senior" furlough from April 08 was furloughed in the beginning of 2010. Less than 2 years service. We no longer have anyone on first or second year pay (unless they were on some sort of voluntary or medical leave).

 

[jynxyjoe]

Guy I'm sitting next to right now would be junior to 5 of those guys on the list. Not necessarily on the "bottom" of the 9E list, but it's only a difference of about 3 months on the raises. Then again, we're not considered "employees" here until we pass the checkride, so our pay rates are determined from a different date than XJ's guys. Yet one more thing that probably is slipping through the cracks.

Hey, would you guys like our contract or do you want something better (or less I suppose)? I forget how spoiled we get over here with our contract.

I know you obviously want the best you can get, I mean more of the Pinnacle pilots on a whole.

 

[higney85]

There are parts of both contracts that are good and bad. We have some things working in TA2 that are better than XJ, we have insurance (sticky point at the moment) but very good, XJ already has the 11 days off and min day with a really nice 401k. It's all a matter of negotiating something that can be of a good combo and better overall. The leverage of that is dual qual, which the company needs but can't have til the rest of the contract is worked out.

 

[jynxyjoe]

There are parts of both contracts that are good and bad. We have some things working in TA2 that are better than XJ, we have insurance (sticky point at the moment) but very good, XJ already has the 11 days off and min day with a really nice 401k. It's all a matter of negotiating something that can be of a good combo and better overall. The leverage of that is dual qual, which the company needs but can't have til the rest of the contract is worked out.

I watch our check airmen struggle with the dual qual stuff 200/900. I'm not saying it's impossible but watching them doesn't give me the warm and fuzzies.

 

[higney85]

I watch our check airmen struggle with the dual qual stuff 200/900. I'm not saying it's impossible but watching them doesn't give me the warm and fuzzies.

I never said the situation would be "here- we will do anything". The dual qual language ?in my mind) will require strict rules on swapping between types, pairing construction, training and proficiency requirements, and the big one (behind safety) of pay treatment. When the company wanted it and there were 16/140 in the fleet the standing position was "no".

 

[kellwolf]

Are you keeping in mind the DOH isn't the part that they are bringing? It's time served- so that "senior" furlough from April 08 was furloughed in the beginning of 2010. Less than 2 years service. We no longer have anyone on first or second year pay (unless they were on some sort of voluntary or medical leave).

Wasn't sure if that was true or not. The info coming out from the company is a little fuzzy at that point. So, if I understand it correctly, take the furlough date, subtract the hire date, and the result is what the longevity would be?

 

[higney85]

Wasn't sure if that was true or not. The info coming out from the company is a little fuzzy at that point. So, if I understand it correctly, take the furlough date, subtract the hire date, and the result is what the longevity would be?

Basically yes- that's where the "for pay purposes" is represented. They still make less than a recall to XJ (at current book), are still junior in every way to pilots (treated as a new hire), but are given credit for time worked under the new Corp umbrella.

We need pilots. The idea was to at least take the resources available under the umbrella of carriers.

 

[kab32283]

We no longer have anyone on first or second year pay (unless they were on some sort of voluntary or medical leave).

Ken, we do have about 15 guys (me included) who are left over from the last two training classes that started in Sept '08 who are still on 2nd year pay. Obviously, we start 3rd year pay coming up in the fall.


This sounds like a good deal to me...furloughees can come off the street (albeit it might be less than what they were making at XJ), but they still have a XJ senority number.

 

[higney85]

Ken, we do have about 15 guys (me included) who are left over from the last two training classes that started in Sept '08 who are still on 2nd year pay. Obviously, we start 3rd year pay coming up in the fall.


This sounds like a good deal to me...furloughees can come off the street (albeit it might be less than what they were making at XJ), but they still have a XJ senority number.

I stand corrected then! I looked at our list and theirs but didn't have the actual checkride dates to reference. It may get you off reserve though....

 

[kab32283]

I stand corrected then! I looked at our list and theirs but didn't have the actual checkride dates to reference. It may get you off reserve though....

Exactly!

 

[kellwolf]

I stand corrected then! I looked at our list and theirs but didn't have the actual checkride dates to reference. It may get you off reserve though....

And therein lies one of the problems that needs to be addressed. Does our seniority start at class date or checkride date? I was under the impression it was class date, but our "hire date" is our checkride date. XJ, there's no difference for them. Their pay, seniority, vacation, BOARDING PRIORITY FOR NONREVING, etc is all based off the same date, whereas 9E guys have to keep track of two dates and keep up with what each one means. Someone brought up an interesting question in the crew room today. The XJ guys getting recalled: which number do they use for nonrev "benefits?" They keep the XJ seniority number, which we've already shown would put them senior to at least some of our guys in that aspect.

 

[CamYZ125]

I never said the situation would be "here- we will do anything". The dual qual language ?in my mind) will require strict rules on swapping between types, pairing construction, training and proficiency requirements, and the big one (behind safety) of pay treatment. When the company wanted it and there were 16/140 in the fleet the standing position was "no".

Eh, at Mesa we were 'qualified' on the -200/-700/-900. The pairings had a mix of -200/-700 and -200/-900. It's different, but not mind blowing. I'd just make sure there's pay differential for the different types, that's all.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

How are furloughed pilots traditionally handled with integration? I've heard that typically they get stapled?

That's generally correct. The way arbitrators see it, a furloughed pilot doesn't bring a job to the table, so he's not entitled to seniority above an active pilot. Fair? Maybe, maybe not, but that is historically how it usually turns out.

 

[kellwolf]

Eh, at Mesa we were 'qualified' on the -200/-700/-900. The pairings had a mix of -200/-700 and -200/-900. It's different, but not mind blowing. I'd just make sure there's pay differential for the different types, that's all.

Before, we only had 16 -900s. Dual qual not only didn't make much sense, it left a lot of room open for potential problems. Lets say you fly the -200, haven't flown the -900 in 4 months, and you get a -900 leg in January going into a special winter ops airport. LEGALLY you're good to go, but safe? Maybe not. If the lines (like at Mesa) have you flying the same type fairly often, then you're better off. I know I get rusty if I don't fly for a week, much less 6 months. Also, what if you just fly the -200, and the only sim they have open for your PC is a -900 sim? Well, we're all dual qualified, so get in there, sparky, and hope for the best.

These are all issues that need to be hammered out BEFORE they happen. Management has been taking a "We need dual qual....well....because we NEED it!" stance in negotiations and wanting to hammer the details out later. Traditionally, this has not worked well at this company. 'Course we all found out WHY they wanted dual qual so badly on July 1st.....

 

[Dangler]

Greetings and Salutations! I hope all is well. Here is what I know: XJ is (alledgedly) going to work 1000 more flights in September. Not including the ones that XJ already covers for 9E.

 

[kellwolf]

Greetings and Salutations! I hope all is well. Here is what I know: XJ is (alledgedly) going to work 1000 more flights in September. Not including the ones that XJ already covers for 9E.

Why bring up the "ones XJ already covers for 9E?" Flame bait? For the record, I've done 2 flights in the past week that were canceled XJ -900s outta MEM. It's going on with both sides. The only difference is now we see why Delta wasn't getting bent out of shape about it.

 

[jynxyjoe]

Why bring up the "ones XJ already covers for 9E?" Flame bait? For the record, I've done 2 flights in the past week that were canceled XJ -900s outta MEM. It's going on with both sides. The only difference is now we see why Delta wasn't getting bent out of shape about it.

Easy my man, I don't think it's meant to be flamebait. This young lady is just being exacting and it was something brought up a few times in the SOC. You must understand the dumping of flights onto us (and visa-versa of course) was strange. A lot of us were saying we were now on Mesaba's supplemental 121 under contract of Pinnacle. We did a lot of EVV and AEX that weren't ours.

I doubt Dangler has a mean bone in her body, trust me, she isn't trying to get a rise out of you.

 

[Prim]

question, does this airline buying mean that there will be pilot furloughs with the companies? Or will there be growth?

 

[PlaneFan82]

Why bring up the "ones XJ already covers for 9E?" Flame bait? For the record, I've done 2 flights in the past week that were canceled XJ -900s outta MEM. It's going on with both sides. The only difference is now we see why Delta wasn't getting bent out of shape about it.

Dangler is definitely not trying to flamebait anyone. For the record, last year XJ covered 323 flights for 9E, while 9E only covered 12 for XJ. This year the number of flights that XJ has covered for 9E has already surpassed that number. While I admit that we must be there for each other, and scratch one another's backs, it does get very frustrating to cover all of these for 9E because it seems as if they cannot fly their schedule. Hopefully with this merger and moving of aircraft, etc these issues can be resolved.

 

[jynxyjoe]

Dangler is definitely not trying to flamebait anyone. For the record, last year XJ covered 323 flights for 9E, while 9E only covered 12 for XJ. This year the number of flights that XJ has covered for 9E has already surpassed that number. While I admit that we must be there for each other, and scratch one another's backs, it does get very frustrating to cover all of these for 9E because it seems as if they cannot fly their schedule. Hopefully with this merger and moving of aircraft, etc these issues can be resolved.

Wow. The signs were there hu?