Pinnacle Corp., buys Mesaba

undsioux1 said:
Was posting this really necessary???
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Necessary? Doubtful..

Does it add to the already "tense" relationship between 9E and Mesaba? Yep..

Does it make it hard to feel bad for the Mesaba guys when they're already acting like that? Yep..

It's sorta like... Well... Like how everyone has something dysfunctional about their family, something that just isn't "right?" Well they are your family so you kinda have a right to make fun of them..

However, when someone else goes and makes fun of your family, it's not soo cool...

I feel bad for the way it's looking like it's going to go for you Mesaba pilots, I really do, but when you guys start trashing the company, you're trashing the pilot group as well.. Posting pictures of two crashes is tactless and causes a loss of respect and it makes it really hard to care what they do with you....
 
Tram said:
Necessary? Doubtful..

Does it add to the already "tense" relationship between 9E and Mesaba? Yep..

Does it make it hard to feel bad for the Mesaba guys when they're already acting like that? Yep..

It's sorta like... Well... Like how everyone has something dysfunctional about their family, something that just isn't "right?" Well they are your family so you kinda have a right to make fun of them..

However, when someone else goes and makes fun of your family, it's not soo cool...

I feel bad for the way it's looking like it's going to go for you Mesaba pilots, I really do, but when you guys start trashing the company, you're trashing the pilot group as well.. Posting pictures of two crashes is tactless and causes a loss of respect and it makes it really hard to care what they do with you....
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I can't speak for my the whole pilot group, but I don't think the Mesaba pilots or I are looking for any sympathy. Things will occur in either negotiated or arbitrated fashion. We are disowned by Delta and lining up to be screwed by Pinnacle. Short of your Health Benefits, we have nothing to gain and everything to lose. No amount of pats on the backs are going to change that. Now we will find out how good that contract of ours protects us.

As far as "start trashing the company", Mesaba's been dumping all over Pinnacle for years. We started long before I get here, or does the now disbanded management chant of "We can't afford to be Pinnacle," not make that clear. The checkairman for my IOE said, "Please don't turn my airline into Pinnacle."

The union has made clear that we are all suppose to get along and be happy. I can't stomach that kool-aid and I'm not alone. Some people are guzzling it down if it makes you feel any better. Our moods will be in collective harmony with whatever QOL is salvaged from this debacle. By definition, our pilot groups ability to "get along" will be the same (as it is) or worse here now and forever. Get used to that fact, and get used to us. We're all brothers now.:hiya:
 
surreal1221 said:
Talk about working for a totalitarian company then.

Does this company go after the original photographers of said photographs? Or just the employees that link them or use public use images in a collage?

I suppose I just don't see the big deal.

Shouldn't management have larger issues, such as seniority list integration, 9E contract negotiations, providing better customer service, finding ways to really become an efficient contract company or saving money through such advancements, instead of trying to have a witch hunt for some poor guy who put together a damn collage? Seriously?

Sounds like a real dick of a company to work for.

So there are a couple photos showing the Company's bad days and accidents, did they not happen? Are they supposed to be ignored now? Rather than perhaps learned from? What a joke. Really feel for you 9E guys if it's really THAT damn bad over there.
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I'd post the policy, assuming I ever virtually checked my virtual v-file, but I'd probably get called to the carpet for posting company policies on a public board. Needless to say, there IS a company policy about bad mouthing 9E on the internet. It's actually been posted, revised and re-posted they spent THAT much time on it. I know of at least 3 FAs that have been called into the office for stuff they've said on friggin' FACEBOOK. Honestly, I just dare the company to fire someone over it. Can you win a wrongful termination suite if the company fires you over something that's 100% true?

Yes, they SHOULD have larger issues, but those take work to deal with. They'd rather beat more people until morale is totally in the crapper and we all suffer from Stockholm syndrome.
 
jynxyjoe said:
As far as "start trashing the company", Mesaba's been dumping all over Pinnacle for years. We started long before I get here, or does the now disbanded management chant of "We can't afford to be Pinnacle," not make that clear. The checkairman for my IOE said, "Please don't turn my airline into Pinnacle."
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I never really understood this mentality. When I went through initial I NEVER heard the word Mesaba mentioned once. We didn't rip on XJ, talk about XJ, or really think about XJ. They were just another NW Airlinker to us. A year later I moved to Ann Arbor and in with a XJ 900 FO. We also had a Saab CA use our apt as a crashpad. When they told me all the things that are said about 9E down in training and on the line I was honestly shocked. The fact that XJ has "been dumping all over Pinnacle for years" when we really just keep to ourselves is pretty pathetic.

I hope our pilot groups will be able to work together and accomplish a fair deal for all parties. But if this "dump all over Pinnacle" attitude continues, I really don't see that happening anytime soon.

FWIW....the guy in our crashpad was a former 9E guy. He had quit a couple of years prior intending to leave the industry, then decided to come back in '07 when the industry was booming and take a street CA spot on the Saab. According to him, 90% of the crap that is said about 9E is complete bull. He was absolutely amazed at the arrogance towards the 9E group especially since he had worked there himself. Something to think about.......:dunno:
 
undsioux1 said:
I never really understood this mentality. When I went through initial I NEVER heard the word Mesaba mentioned once. We didn't rip on XJ, talk about XJ, or really think about XJ. They were just another NW Airlinker to us. A year later I moved to Ann Arbor and in with a XJ 900 FO. We also had a Saab CA use our apt as a crashpad. When they told me all the things that are said about 9E down in training and on the line I was honestly shocked. The fact that XJ has "been dumping all over Pinnacle for years" when we really just keep to ourselves is pretty pathetic.

I hope our pilot groups will be able to work together and accomplish a fair deal for all parties. But if this "dump all over Pinnacle" attitude continues, I really don't see that happening anytime soon.

FWIW....the guy in our crashpad was a former 9E guy. He had quit a couple of years prior intending to leave the industry, then decided to come back in '07 when the industry was booming and take a street CA spot on the Saab. According to him, 90% of the crap that is said about 9E is complete bull. He was absolutely amazed at the arrogance towards the 9E group especially since he had worked there himself. Something to think about.......:dunno:
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I find most of the hate comes from guys who have been here +8 years, or 30% of the seniority list. It comes from un-returned preferential hiring from both furloughs years back. Comes from captains who can still remember crap given to them by pinnacle guys for their contract now, which is still better than Pinnacles. Crashes and overruns which result in more planes, when Mesaba could never catch a break (that's more jealously obviously, or just dismay). Having to suck up a bunch of express1 captains who got 3 years here for every one there. The list goes on, but I know the response Mesaba pilots where given by pinnacle during the shamruptcy leads the pack on complaints.

In fairness none of us, or most of your list over there, was here in 03-04.

Irregardless, I should add, the feelings are there and once again Mesaba is getting castrated. It's not a plead for sympathy either, it's just a desire to break something.
 
There was a Colgan mail that came out today saying that Mesaba furloughs are all getting preferential hiring at Colgan and Pinnacle for the time being. They will get to keep there time earned at Mesaba as far as pay and benefits go but for now DOH at Colgan for schedule bidding purposes. They also do not have to resign their seniority numbers at Mesaba for integration purposes.

So far it doesnt seem like a bad deal.
 
3enginejock said:
There was a Colgan mail that came out today saying that Mesaba furloughs are all getting preferential hiring at Colgan and Pinnacle for the time being. They will get to keep there time earned at Mesaba as far as pay and benefits go but for now DOH at Colgan for schedule bidding purposes. They also do not have to resign their seniority numbers at Mesaba for integration purposes.

So far it doesnt seem like a bad deal.
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Just read the memo.

If any Mesaba guys do it, they are going to be in for a real shock on payday, and when they are stuck on reserve with no real work rules except for the FARs.

Ill also be confused as to how the career expectations of any SLI would go if you came over to CJC, or maybe at the time you came over to CJC your expectations of upgrade are pretty low.
 
v1valarob said:
Just read the memo.

If any Mesaba guys do it, they are going to be in for a real shock on payday, and when they are stuck on reserve with no real work rules except for the FARs.

Ill also be confused as to how the career expectations of any SLI would go if you came over to CJC, or maybe at the time you came over to CJC your expectations of upgrade are pretty low.
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Is an upgrade expectation factored into an SLI? I assumed it was pay rate, work rules, the like.
 
Just saw the memo. Seems like a step in the right direction, right?

Hopefully other contract providors do the same thing here soon.
 
3enginejock said:
There was a Colgan mail that came out today saying that Mesaba furloughs are all getting preferential hiring at Colgan and Pinnacle for the time being. They will get to keep there time earned at Mesaba as far as pay and benefits go but for now DOH at Colgan for schedule bidding purposes. They also do not have to resign their seniority numbers at Mesaba for integration purposes.

So far it doesnt seem like a bad deal.
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So... new hire status being bottom of the list for schedule, but keeping their pay longevity.. In other words, a Mesaba furlough at the bottom of the list possibly making more than a slightly more senior non-Mesaba furlough...

Either something doesn't completely add up, or the current pilots at the bottom of the list at Colgan and Pinnacle are going to be super pissed about someone just hired making more money than they are for flying the same airplane in the same seat.
 
ctab5060X said:
So... new hire status being bottom of the list for schedule, but keeping their pay longevity.. In other words, a Mesaba furlough at the bottom of the list possibly making more than a slightly more senior non-Mesaba furlough...

Either something doesn't completely add up, or the current pilots at the bottom of the list at Colgan and Pinnacle are going to be super pissed about someone just hired making more money than they are for flying the same airplane in the same seat.
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What date do furloughs go back to? 4 years is $28 an hour. I'm guessing it doesn't go anywhere near that far back.

I personally could care less about pay since it's probably only $1 or $2 an hour, and with our work rules that truly is only $75 or $150 extra a month.
 
v1valarob said:
What date do furloughs go back to? 4 years is $28 an hour. I'm guessing it doesn't go anywhere near that far back.

I personally could care less about pay since it's probably only $1 or $2 an hour, and with our work rules that truly is only $75 or $150 extra a month.
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I think the Mesaba furloughs go back to sometime in April of '08. That would be 3rd year pay at 9E. To compare numbers... a straight new hire in the same class with a furloughed Mesaba pilot would be making about $9/hour less... To fly the same equipment in the same seat.

Something about that is just not right...
 
ctab5060X said:
I think the Mesaba furloughs go back to sometime in April of '08. That would be 3rd year pay at 9E. To compare numbers... a straight new hire in the same class with a furloughed Mesaba pilot would be making about $9/hour less... To fly the same equipment in the same seat.

Something about that is just not right...
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They aren't getting Mesaba pay, just Mesaba longevity. So a guy that was hired in April 08' would be on 3rd year pay at Colgan which is $27/hr.

If they were to give them Mesaba pay while at Colgan, then there would be hell to pay.

FYI, an April 08 Colgan hire would be very close to holding EWR Q CA, and would probably be able to hold SF3 CA come spring next year.
 
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