If we do indeed negotiate a new CBA we should start with Mesaba's work rules and work from there. Add in Pinnacle's health care (highly unlikely after last week in DC, but worth a shot) and vacation slide. Also add in the separate pay rate for 900 FOs. Use the same industry average plan the Pinnacle NC has been working on with the company to determine pay rates. In return the company could probably get away with dual qual and a concession in health care (but not as drastic as they proposed last week). My guess is the Mesaba acquisition is the "secret reason" they wanted it so badly but couldn't tell us why. Just my .02 worth, feel free to add any comments.
Pinnacle Corp., buys Mesaba
- Thread starter Seggy
- Start date
If we do indeed negotiate a new CBA we should start with Mesaba's work rules and work from there. Add in Pinnacle's health care (highly unlikely after last week in DC, but worth a shot) and vacation slide. Also add in the separate pay rate for 900 FOs. Use the same industry average plan the Pinnacle NC has been working on with the company to determine pay rates. In return the company could probably get away with dual qual and a concession in health care (but not as drastic as they proposed last week). My guess is the Mesaba acquisition is the "secret reason" they wanted it so badly but couldn't tell us why. Just my .02 worth, feel free to add any comments.
blee256
Well-Known Member
I agree thats what we should get. The best of both contracts. However I THINK NW just got DLs contract, and with the United/CO merger, they are being offered the CO contract.
So i can see that pattern continuing and pinnacle just getting Mesaba's CBA. Which is fine for the short term, but when does XJs contract expire?
Welcome to the SUCK. We have been bitching about it for a while now, but they (union) say they cant do anything. Our current CBA just says we fly for free on our own aircraft. other than that, its up to the company and delta. We barely got our parent back on pass privileges, but they still pay the buddy pass rate. Its pretty garbage. much like the rest of our contract.
TUCKnTRUCK
That guy
oops
We lost parent passes, buddy passes, RTC, and fly confirmed for less with the merger. I was pretty bummed about the RTC/buddy passes since that's how i took my g/f with me. She's now my domestic partner so its really no biggie. We got parent passes back a few months later, but they fly S4 priority, not sure what your parents currently fly at. Pretty much on par with buddy passes so your priority is terrible. You and your wife/DP will fly S3C, pretty much the same as other connection carriers. It was rumored that we would ride behind all the wholly-owned carriers when the benefits were about to be released, but were all at S3C.
Nothing from our end....anything good???
Tram
Well-Known Member
LOL.. dude.. we have nothing.. zip.. zero.. zilch.. nada..
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Okay, I'm curious. What's Mesaba's Sec 1 on being bought by another carrier? That's the elephant in the room.
As for the SLI.....that's gonna be nasty, no two ways about it. I DOUBT it'll be DOH, though. I can't remember the last time there was a DOH integration. Likely it'll be between the two/three MECs to work it out, and arbitration after that if no agreement can be met. If an aribtrator goes by "career expectations," I'm afraid with furloughs on going and in the future, XJ guys might get double boned. I'd prefer an amicable integration with some sort of fences worked out by the MECs.
As for the SLI.....that's gonna be nasty, no two ways about it. I DOUBT it'll be DOH, though. I can't remember the last time there was a DOH integration. Likely it'll be between the two/three MECs to work it out, and arbitration after that if no agreement can be met. If an aribtrator goes by "career expectations," I'm afraid with furloughs on going and in the future, XJ guys might get double boned. I'd prefer an amicable integration with some sort of fences worked out by the MECs.
IFly85
Well-Known Member
Amendable Dec. '11
BE19Pilot
Flying a Box
I am obviously not the only person that didn't see this coming, in fact when I walked in the crew room I thought it was a joke. Anyway, it appears that Delta is trying to divest themselves of their wholly-owned regionals. It makes sense, because even if they function as a separate business unit there are still liabilities from a cost point of view.
Consolidation in the airline industry is a must to survive in the current economic climate, and fuel costs will only rise with no end in sight. Pinnacle has a strategy that seems like a good idea on paper, however that translates to reality will remain to be seen.
As a Colgan Air pilot, I look at this with a mixture of trepidation, interest and excitement. I like many of you have seen many changes over the past 6 years at Colgan Air. When I started here there were only 200 pilots and look at things now! The key issue is how well this purchase, marriage of convenience, merger, etc... call it what you will is organized. After the way the "Q" program was slapped together I am very concerned. At the moment, Colgan Air is simultaneously acquiring new aircraft, hiring new employees in all employee groups, negotiating a first-ever contract with ALPA and merging with another airline.
Historically speaking airline mergers, acquisitions, bankruptcies have the potential to have life-changing consequences for the employees. Just ask anyone at Midwest about being acquired by RAH, and I am sure they will support that. The reality is that some of us (many?) are going to wind up here for the long-haul. I don't particularly like this idea myself, but I don't see a Delta, United or AA on my horizon. So, how do we keep the human carnage to a minimum and mitigate management's drive to keep costs down and the pilots under their proverbial thumb?
There are MANY issues to be resolved before this merger/integration takes place and it will take more than a couple of years to do so. It will take the cooperation of managment, ALPA and the employees to make this a successful venture. My hand is extended in comradeship and solidarity to my Mesaba brothers and sisters. Welcome to the jungle! Hang on it's going to be a little bumpy until we get leveled off. Moreover, keep the faith that things WILL level-off...
Regards,
ex-Navy Rotorhead
Consolidation in the airline industry is a must to survive in the current economic climate, and fuel costs will only rise with no end in sight. Pinnacle has a strategy that seems like a good idea on paper, however that translates to reality will remain to be seen.
As a Colgan Air pilot, I look at this with a mixture of trepidation, interest and excitement. I like many of you have seen many changes over the past 6 years at Colgan Air. When I started here there were only 200 pilots and look at things now! The key issue is how well this purchase, marriage of convenience, merger, etc... call it what you will is organized. After the way the "Q" program was slapped together I am very concerned. At the moment, Colgan Air is simultaneously acquiring new aircraft, hiring new employees in all employee groups, negotiating a first-ever contract with ALPA and merging with another airline.
Historically speaking airline mergers, acquisitions, bankruptcies have the potential to have life-changing consequences for the employees. Just ask anyone at Midwest about being acquired by RAH, and I am sure they will support that. The reality is that some of us (many?) are going to wind up here for the long-haul. I don't particularly like this idea myself, but I don't see a Delta, United or AA on my horizon. So, how do we keep the human carnage to a minimum and mitigate management's drive to keep costs down and the pilots under their proverbial thumb?
There are MANY issues to be resolved before this merger/integration takes place and it will take more than a couple of years to do so. It will take the cooperation of managment, ALPA and the employees to make this a successful venture. My hand is extended in comradeship and solidarity to my Mesaba brothers and sisters. Welcome to the jungle! Hang on it's going to be a little bumpy until we get leveled off. Moreover, keep the faith that things WILL level-off...
Regards,
ex-Navy Rotorhead
jynxyjoe
Queso King
KellWolf, for you.
Some stuff from sect 1
----- /endcontract
anyway, there's a lot more, but that's some of the stuff that has to happen right away.
Anyway just wanted to share some of our captains experiences already with meeting with some of the Pinnacle pilots
"I ran into a Pinnacle FO while waiting for the train and was listening to the conference call and you would not believe what he said. We talked about what Pinnacle holdings said about the planes (about the jets going to Pinnacle and props to mesaba) and he said he knew that and I said that his union chairman was at the conference call. He asked what was being said and I mentioned that they are talking about merging the seniority lists. He gave me a shocked face and said you mean Mesaba and Colgan and the jets are going to Pinnacle! He seriously thought they expect all our jets to go to Pinnacle and our pilots to merge with colgan! I hope they are not all like that""
This brings back memories of a PCL FO telling my Saab FO he should be making $18 an hour because he flies t-props.
It's gonna be a LONG road ahead obviously.
Some stuff from sect 1
-Unless otherwise mutually agreed, there will be no
subcontracting or wet leasing of the Company’s flying for a
period in excess of ninety (90) days. Any such
subcontracting or wet leasing shall not result in the furlough
of any pilot who is available and qualified to perform such
flying.subcontracting or wet leasing of the Company’s flying for a
period in excess of ninety (90) days. Any such
subcontracting or wet leasing shall not result in the furlough
of any pilot who is available and qualified to perform such
-If the Company or its parent sells, transfers, or disposes of
over forty percent (40%) of the aircraft in the Company’s
fleet (in a single transaction or multi-step transaction within
a rolling twelve (12) month period) as a going concern to an
air carrier, directly or indirectly, the Company or its parent
will, as a condition of the sale, require the purchaser to offer
employment to those pilots assigned to that portion of the
fleet at the time of the sale.over forty percent (40%) of the aircraft in the Company’s
fleet (in a single transaction or multi-step transaction within
a rolling twelve (12) month period) as a going concern to an
air carrier, directly or indirectly, the Company or its parent
will, as a condition of the sale, require the purchaser to offer
employment to those pilots assigned to that portion of the
-In the event of any merger of the Company with another
airline, acquisition of the Company by another airline, or
acquisition by the Company of another airline, which affects
the seniority rights of pilots on the Mesaba Airlines Pilots’
airline, acquisition of the Company by another airline, or
acquisition by the Company of another airline, which affects
the seniority rights of pilots on the Mesaba Airlines Pilots’
1.3
Seniority List, provisions will be made for the integration of
seniority lists in a fair and equitable manner including,
where applicable, agreement through collective bargaining
between the carriers and the representatives of the pilot
groups affected. In the event of failure to agree, the dispute
may be resolved in accordance with Section 13 of the
Allegheny-Mohawk Labor Protection Provisions, except that
the integration of the seniority lists of the respective pilot
groups shall be governed by the Association Merger Policy
if both pre-transaction pilot groups are represented by the
Association.
seniority lists in a fair and equitable manner including,
where applicable, agreement through collective bargaining
between the carriers and the representatives of the pilot
groups affected. In the event of failure to agree, the dispute
may be resolved in accordance with Section 13 of the
Allegheny-Mohawk Labor Protection Provisions, except that
the integration of the seniority lists of the respective pilot
groups shall be governed by the Association Merger Policy
if both pre-transaction pilot groups are represented by the
Association.
Upon announcement of any transaction which is
intended to result in the consolidation of the Company
with another airline, the Company and the Association
will promptly enter into negotiations for an appropriate
interim fence agreement, if necessary, pending
completion of the combined collective bargaining
agreement and an integrated seniority list. Pending
completion of the combined collective bargaining
agreement and an integrated seniority list, but for not
longer than twelve (12) months from the closing of the
transaction, (i) the aircraft (including all orders and
options to purchase aircraft) and operations of each
pre-transaction airline shall remain separate and shall
not be transferred between the pre-transaction airlines,
and (ii) there shall be no furlough of pilots.intended to result in the consolidation of the Company
with another airline, the Company and the Association
will promptly enter into negotiations for an appropriate
interim fence agreement, if necessary, pending
completion of the combined collective bargaining
agreement and an integrated seniority list. Pending
completion of the combined collective bargaining
agreement and an integrated seniority list, but for not
longer than twelve (12) months from the closing of the
transaction, (i) the aircraft (including all orders and
options to purchase aircraft) and operations of each
pre-transaction airline shall remain separate and shall
not be transferred between the pre-transaction airlines,
----- /endcontract
anyway, there's a lot more, but that's some of the stuff that has to happen right away.
Anyway just wanted to share some of our captains experiences already with meeting with some of the Pinnacle pilots
"I ran into a Pinnacle FO while waiting for the train and was listening to the conference call and you would not believe what he said. We talked about what Pinnacle holdings said about the planes (about the jets going to Pinnacle and props to mesaba) and he said he knew that and I said that his union chairman was at the conference call. He asked what was being said and I mentioned that they are talking about merging the seniority lists. He gave me a shocked face and said you mean Mesaba and Colgan and the jets are going to Pinnacle! He seriously thought they expect all our jets to go to Pinnacle and our pilots to merge with colgan! I hope they are not all like that""
This brings back memories of a PCL FO telling my Saab FO he should be making $18 an hour because he flies t-props.
It's gonna be a LONG road ahead obviously.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Better than being amendable negative 5+ years ago, I guess.....
SoCalAprch
Well-Known Member
Does Mesaba own their planes or do they lease them from Delta like Compass does?
H46Bubba
Well-Known Member
Delta as well.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Ouch. "Offer employment?" I could see our management looking at this and saying "Yes, you WERE a -900 CA, and we are offering you employment as a -200 FO at 1st year pay."
Management will argue that since they're operating Mesaba as a separate entity, it's not "affecting the seniority rights" of the pilots.
Again, management will argue that it's not a consolidation with another airline since Mesaba is being operated separately from Pinnacle and Colgan.
I'd bet money this winds up in arbitration and takes over a year just to see movement on the issue. The odds of management doing the sensible and right thing are pretty slim.
sherpa
Well-Known Member
I hope you are wrong and I think you might be. The integration of operations between Pinnacle and Mesaba jets and crews needs to get done fairly quickly to fully gain the......... here it comes.......SYNERGIES from this merger.
It is in the best interest of the unions to get an agreed upon list together in short order to one keep pace with the company's aircraft migration plans (whats to stop them from putting the next 15 Q's on mesaba's ticket next year without colgan pilots? OR grabbing a couple of 900's from Mesaba and putting them on PNCL without their pilots?).
There is also the issue of the furloughed Mesaba pilots who could come to work at CJC or PNCL, who are both in the middle of a hiring wave, if at the very least an agreement was in place between the three MEC's.
The quicker this thing gets done the better off all 4 parties are and I think everyone involved is on the same page in that regard.
Gonna be a busy few months for our MEC's!
Tram
Well-Known Member
You mean the Q's bought for you boys off the sweat of 9E pilots?
I think you need to get your whipsaw proof pants on and join the party..
sherpa
Well-Known Member
You mean the Q's bought for you boys off the sweat of 9E pilots?
I think you need to get your whipsaw proof pants on and join the party..
Oops sorry henceforth all references to the q400 shall be followed with the phrase "purchased by the sweat of 9e pilots"
jynxyjoe
Queso King
Let them argue it out. Mesaba has nothing to gain and everything to lose. There aren't many guys who give a crap right now what helps anyone. Our MEC is a pretty bright boy, and he loves being an underdog.