Pinnacle Corp., buys Mesaba

[jynxyjoe]

Problem with this time around is there's underlying bad blood between a lot of 9E and XJ guys.

Very true. Few at this company want to be affiliated with Pinnacle. From what we've experienced at the MEM side, no one from Pinnacle wants to be affiliated with us either. Kell and I are ok because we are both future Best Buy managers (me co manager). However, everyone else seems content to fight it out.

I'm more worried about the pilot groups sabotaging it.

Things are spiraling around here. If this stuff continues it'll be Us Air all over again. It is still the first week, however. People need time to adjust, and quite frankly, it's PTSD over here.

Due to my future at BB (Best Buy or B squared) I'll just go with the flow, and land my landmines where I can.

 

[Hootie]

I don't buy that for a second. The flow has nothing to do with dollars and cents.

It's a flowback and it was starting to work in reverse, that is why it had to be shut down.

 

[Hootie]

so unless the mesaba guys are on the war path, .

I don't work for Mesaba, but it used to be a very decent/desirable place to work, a lot of old time dudes who have been through a lot. In fact an old buddy of mine is maybe getting close to his third furlough. I don't think they are excited about getting turned into Chuck Colgan Airways.

 

[TUCKnTRUCK]

I don't work for Mesaba, but it used to be a very decent/desirable place to work, a lot of old time dudes who have been through a lot. In fact an old buddy of mine is maybe getting close to his third furlough. I don't think they are excited about getting turned into Chuck Colgan Airways.

Colgan is gone... It will still be mesaba, and their managment when the dust settles I hope. After reading the above, I wouldn't worry about the Colgan house at least.

 

[jynxyjoe]

Colgan is gone... It will still be mesaba, and their managment when the dust settles I hope. After reading the above, I wouldn't worry about the Colgan house at least.

Early word from the rumor mill is that our "trinity" are bailing. We'll see though, it's just the rumor mill.

 

[TUCKnTRUCK]

Early word from the rumor mill is that our "trinity" are bailing. We'll see though, it's just the rumor mill.

I've heard ours are just about to walk the plank... 9l has been such a colossal mess, I doubt that they would give this group another airline to tend. As it is, your vp/ pres levels have a 2 year deal... From there out who knows. I'd like to be positive, and hope that karma has come for those " family" members we love to hate.

From a staffing point, if what becomes mesaba ends up with 45+ Q's and nothing gets lost with the jet side merger, there should be need for more pilots/ recalls I would hope. I'd also love to see a "mesaba" pay rate on the thing.

I hope all sides can get together and work out a deal that works for all... And tries not to turn this into another us east- west fight. The only people loosing over there are the pilots.

 

[kellwolf]

I've heard ours are just about to walk the plank... 9l has been such a colossal mess, I doubt that they would give this group another airline to tend. As it is, your vp/ pres levels have a 2 year deal... From there out who knows. I'd like to be positive, and hope that karma has come for those " family" members we love to hate.

For some, it's the second time they've screwed up at an airline. Just ask some of the guys at 9E about Casey's other escapades. We were glad to see him go, but we're sorry you guys got stuck with him.

 

[Getburned]

Since this has probably been in the works for sometime, do you guys think that pinnacle was not hiring because they knew they were about to acquire another airline? Also do you think a new JFK or LGA base for the 70/90's? It would seem they would put some more of your lift up in that area anyhow.

 

[jynxyjoe]

Since this has probably been in the works for sometime, do you guys think that pinnacle was not hiring because they knew they were about to acquire another airline? Also do you think a new JFK or LGA base for the 70/90's? It would seem they would put some more of your lift up in that area anyhow.

Well I've been in LGA twice this trip and there's plenty of damn planes parked around there. Send them off to LGA, fine by me, I'll rebid the Saab MEM and maybe buy another pool table off the per diem check.

As far as the contract and merging Colgan I dont' know what to tell everyone. The captain I'm flying with now, #300 something, has one guy senior to him at Colgan and 125 above him at Pinnacle. Everyone above 150 at this airline is in it to the end and that includes running the place into the ground if they aren't happy. I know that the vast majority of pilots just wanna get along and are willing to compromise. Everyone get educated and come up with some ideas, I got nothing. However, if you'd like to read Kell and I's new blog about our adventures at Best Buy please stand by.

 

[SpiraMirabilis]

So this is Pinnacle's strategy for negotiations. Keep buying crap perpetually so you never "have enough money" to give the pilots what they ask for.

 

[kellwolf]

So this is Pinnacle's strategy for negotiations. Keep buying crap perpetually so you never "have enough money" to give the pilots what they ask for.

Sounds like it. That, and we'll be too distracted by the SLI to negotiate a combined contract. Either that, or they'll just re-boot negotiations and we'll be in it for ANOTHER 6 years.

 

[WalterSobchak]

Q is 65,000 lbs.....FYI. Not sure where that fits into the fray?

so 20-30,000lbs less than a 175. FYI CP's are 89,000 lbs(so 24,000 less). So I my estimate wasnt that bad!

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

The E-175 is WAY too small to replace the DC-9s. DAL is slowly getting rid of the -30s, and only keeping the -50s, which seat about 130 or so, which is the size of a Bombardier CS300. Those "C" series planes were what NWA was probalby going to replace the -9s with. DAL is not sure what they are going to do, but I read they plan on keeping the -9-50s for about 8-10 more years.

Also, Pinnacle just started accepting applications on their website.

cliff
LFW

 

[kellwolf]

Hi!

The E-175 is WAY too small to replace the DC-9s. DAL is slowly getting rid of the -30s, and only keeping the -50s, which seat about 130 or so, which is the size of a Bombardier CS300. Those "C" series planes were what NWA was probalby going to replace the -9s with. DAL is not sure what they are going to do, but I read they plan on keeping the -9-50s for about 8-10 more years.

Some would say that the CRJ-200 is too small to replace a DC-9. Look what happened. Routes that used to have DC-9 service twice a day got converted to a 50 seat RJ four times a day. Maybe less than that if the DC-9s weren't full to begin with. Used to have an Airbus going MEM-BOS. It's an E175 now. Hell, we have a CRJ-900 doing MEM-MIA.

 

[jynxyjoe]

Some would say that the CRJ-200 is too small to replace a DC-9. Look what happened. Routes that used to have DC-9 service twice a day got converted to a 50 seat RJ four times a day. Maybe less than that if the DC-9s weren't full to begin with. Used to have an Airbus going MEM-BOS. It's an E175 now. Hell, we have a CRJ-900 doing MEM-MIA.

*cough* CRJ-900 *cough*

 

[kellwolf]

*cough* CRJ-900 *cough*

Well, it WAS an E175. Same number of seats.

 

[kellwolf]

So, here's what looks like may be happening. There IS a provision for what happens if 9E grows at the expense of XJ, and it stems from an LOA back in the late 90s. XJ's current contract even has an LOA that addresses it. It's number 6 if you XJ guys wanna follow along.

Essentially, if 9E management decides to transfer planes from XJ to 9E, they have to offer vacancies to XJ. The LOA get sketchy because it was designed around transfers involving Saabs and Jetstreams. There would be X number opening for the Saab (which I guess would be the CRJ now) and X number for the Jetstream (which I guess would be the Saab, only those will be going to Colgan....or Colgan will be going to Mesaba. Who knows?). Seniority would be on a (and this is the kick in the nuts) 1 for 2 basis for CAs and essentially date of transfer for the FOs (it's listed at Aug 1997 in the original LOA, but I doubt that'll happen). So, and 18 year XJ CA would go over to the 9E side with 9 years of seniority. The FOs would, essentially, get stapled.

Now, the original LOA was for 9E pilots going to XJ, however XJ's LOA 6 states that if the reverse is true (which in this case, shockingly, it is), the two will meet to hammer out an LOA with "no less favorable" terms.

As far as Colgan goes, no LOA exists, so we're likely looking at merging the lists per ALPA policy there. Knowing Pinnacle Corp as I do, they're gonna fight tooth and nail to keep from merging the lists. They've already got a multi-year track record in doing this with us and Colgan. The FAIR thing, from my perspective, would be ONE seniority list for XJ, 9E and 9L with fences and maybe some language in place that limits jumping between the certs sorta like how Republic does it.

Now, the above LOA expires in 2 years, so I could very well see management dragging their feet so they don't have to do anything. The flip side is they may start moving planes from XJ to 9E in a few months to consolidate funds and just use the LOA to get XJ pilots on a "half price" sale while letting Colgan and Mesaba duke it out on a seniority list integration.

This.....well, it's gonna get pretty damn ugly.

 

[Stryder]

So, here's what looks like may be happening. There IS a provision for what happens if 9E grows at the expense of XJ, and it stems from an LOA back in the late 90s. XJ's current contract even has an LOA that addresses it. It's number 6 if you XJ guys wanna follow along.

Essentially, if 9E management decides to transfer planes from XJ to 9E, they have to offer vacancies to XJ. The LOA get sketchy because it was designed around transfers involving Saabs and Jetstreams. There would be X number opening for the Saab (which I guess would be the CRJ now) and X number for the Jetstream (which I guess would be the Saab, only those will be going to Colgan....or Colgan will be going to Mesaba. Who knows?). Seniority would be on a (and this is the kick in the nuts) 1 for 2 basis for CAs and essentially date of transfer for the FOs (it's listed at Aug 1997 in the original LOA, but I doubt that'll happen). So, and 18 year XJ CA would go over to the 9E side with 9 years of seniority. The FOs would, essentially, get stapled.

Now, the original LOA was for 9E pilots going to XJ, however XJ's LOA 6 states that if the reverse is true (which in this case, shockingly, it is), the two will meet to hammer out an LOA with "no less favorable" terms.

As far as Colgan goes, no LOA exists, so we're likely looking at merging the lists per ALPA policy there. Knowing Pinnacle Corp as I do, they're gonna fight tooth and nail to keep from merging the lists. They've already got a multi-year track record in doing this with us and Colgan. The FAIR thing, from my perspective, would be ONE seniority list for XJ, 9E and 9L with fences and maybe some language in place that limits jumping between the certs sorta like how Republic does it.

Now, the above LOA expires in 2 years, so I could very well see management dragging their feet so they don't have to do anything. The flip side is they may start moving planes from XJ to 9E in a few months to consolidate funds and just use the LOA to get XJ pilots on a "half price" sale while letting Colgan and Mesaba duke it out on a seniority list integration.

This.....well, it's gonna get pretty damn ugly.

Yeah after I read that LOA it sounds really bad for the XJ pilots that want to stay on the jet. It would probably work out best if they went with the saabs. This is going to get ugly for both sides but I think XJ is going to get the worst of it.

 

[dvtpilot]

That sounds like a raw deal.

So a question comes to mind....

If you're at XJ and want to keep life as smooth as possible and elect to goto/stay on the Saab, do you still get it in the end if DL phases out the Saabs as planned?

 

[Stryder]

That sounds like a raw deal.

So a question comes to mind....

If you're at XJ and want to keep life as smooth as possible and elect to goto/stay on the Saab, do you still get it in the end if DL phases out the Saabs as planned?

I would imagine so. I think mesaba will have our pass benefits by the end of the year anyway which are way worse than they have now. Also if on the colgan side they will be flying for continental and usair instead of delta. From what I can gather from the LOA it looks like the junior pilots (5 years or less) would be better off going or staying on the saabs. Anyone junior to that will end up on the bottom of the 9e list since almost everyone here has been on property for 2 years.