Living the Dream Paying back the loan

SteveC said:
Interesting justification.

"I didn't know better" could really come in handy in a lot of life situations.
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But he has a pretty good point. At F/A here during the housing bubble was approved for a $300,000 mortgage on salary of around $15,000/year. The business deserves to lose its money for making stupid decisions as well.

The issue with student loans is since they aren't bankruptable (is that a word?) banks have zero incentive to do due diligence. Normally the business losing their money offers a check and balance with the guy wanting to go borrow money. That doesn't really exist in the student loan world.

It has its pluses and minuses.
 
AngelFuree said:
I only called you out because I really hate seeing people twist words.
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Um yeah, except for the fact that I'm not. He's making a very general, broad statement that has much more to do with pop culture catch phrases than anything else. It's a statement that doesn't consider its own logical outcomes if carried to the full conclusion he's trying to make. For everyone's benefit, let me break this down again.

His original statement:
dbrault17 said:
I have more respect for someone defying public opionion in defense of their values than someone just 'staying in line' with the status quo.
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in light of his original post could be broken down to this:
I have more respect for Txaviator than Tallflyer.
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I'm really not offended by that. I'm sure he's got some skills in an airplane that I don't and in general is a very capable guy. He's just not a guy I want to be working next to. In any case, then take my last quote, then one in contention apparently:
TallFlyer said:
You have more respect for someone willingly giving the finger to his obligations than someone who actually read what he's signing and abiding by it?
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Again, not trying to make it personal or shoot anybody down, but the point I'm making is a valid one and doesn't require 'twisting' any words around. I'm just demonstrating the meaning that other people take from it.

Words mean things. Even more peskier than that is they follow you around too. And if any of that bothers you I suggest never watching the news again.

SteveC said:
Interesting justification.

"I didn't know better" could really come in handy in a lot of life situations.
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Yeah, I'd really like to know where life's 'ctrl-Z' button is......
 
wheelsup said:
But he has a pretty good point. At F/A here during the housing bubble was approved for a $300,000 mortgage on salary of around $15,000/year. The business deserves to lose its money for making stupid decisions as well.

The issue with student loans is since they aren't bankruptable (is that a word?) banks have zero incentive to do due diligence. Normally the business losing their money offers a check and balance with the guy wanting to go borrow money. That doesn't really exist in the student loan world.

It has its pluses and minuses.
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I understand what you are saying, but on the flipside it should be up to the individual to do some simple due diligence if they can pay the loan back or not. In high school I could figure rent, food, utilities, etc. would be roughly x amount so I need to make y amount. Now if the person in question got suckered into a Kit Darby scenario of making high 6 figures as captain flying a 747 in six months then I can just sit back and laugh.
 
While foreclosure, bankruptcy, "just not paying it back", etc all sound like perfectly rational and good courses of action right now, those decisions will have lifelong impacts that you will regret.

Unless, of course, you decide to never interact with financial institutions that operate in the US again.

You can opine about what is fair and unfair in the financial system, about how things are stacked against the individual and in favor of the companies, etc, but none of that changes the facts about how such actions being proposed in this thread will effect people for the rest of their lives.

You can rage against the machine of you want, but the only person such "small victories" will hurt is you.

Choose wisely.
 
Intern Mike PM sent!

Txaviator I'm still awaiting for you to reply to this thread. :beer:

Everyone I don't ask for sympathy of my crappy credit score. All I asked for was how you guys live on CFI pay and still pay back flight school loans, what kind of jobs and tactics to save money.
 
jspeed87 said:
Everyone I don't ask for sympathy of my crappy credit score. All I asked for was how you guys live on CFI pay and still pay back flight school loans, what kind of jobs and tactics to save money.
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As someone who has a "house" of a student loan, I've been paying mine back since the Fall of 2004, 6 months after I "graduated" from Delta Connection Academy.

I got hired at Lanier Flight Center in Gainesville, GA as a CFI in July of 2004, I started at $22/hour with a 15 hour/week guarantee.

For the first year I was at LFC, I was making a payment of $800/month...I lived at home and thankfully had no car payment.

The other 2 years I was there, I lived closer to the airport (I was driving 50 miles a day roundtrip the first year, living at home). I had a house with 2 roomies, and we were paying $350/month to live there...I was spending that in gas a month, so it was pretty a break even for me. I was still making $800/month payment.

I took on many jobs while I was LFC, I was the manager of Maintenance for our 13 aircraft and that got me an extra $500/month. I was able to get my MEI and get my pay bumped up to $25/hour. I was eventually moved up to Assistant Chief Pilot for my last year and half...had work paying off.

I worked 7 days a week and averaged nearly 80 hours a month of billable time for my 3 years there.

You can make some $$ being a CFI, but you have to be willing to fly your butt off and not turn down opportunities to learn more about the business of aviation.

My CFI job helped me learn the skills necessary to have the job I do now (Director of Flight Ops/Chief Pilot...Part 91).

When it comes time to start looking at airlines, do your homework and know how much you're guaranteed to make each bid/month. I went to Horizon so that I wouldn't have to take too much of a hit on $$ each month. I was still able to make my $800/month for student loan and have enough for my own apartment (no roomies).

Your mileage may vary...just be creative and don't settle for low pay.
 
SurferLucas said:
As someone who has a "house" of a student loan, I've been paying mine back since the Fall of 2004, 6 months after I "graduated" from Delta Connection Academy.

I got hired at Lanier Flight Center in Gainesville, GA as a CFI in July of 2004, I started at $22/hour with a 15 hour/week guarantee.

For the first year I was at LFC, I was making a payment of $800/month...I lived at home and thankfully had no car payment.

The other 2 years I was there, I lived closer to the airport (I was driving 50 miles a day roundtrip the first year, living at home). I had a house with 2 roomies, and we were paying $350/month to live there...I was spending that in gas a month, so it was pretty a break even for me. I was still making $800/month payment.

I took on many jobs while I was LFC, I was the manager of Maintenance for our 13 aircraft and that got me an extra $500/month. I was able to get my MEI and get my pay bumped up to $25/hour. I was eventually moved up to Assistant Chief Pilot for my last year and half...had work paying off.

I worked 7 days a week and averaged nearly 80 hours a month of billable time for my 3 years there.

You can make some $$ being a CFI, but you have to be willing to fly your butt off and not turn down opportunities to learn more about the business of aviation.

My CFI job helped me learn the skills necessary to have the job I do now (Director of Flight Ops/Chief Pilot...Part 91).

When it comes time to start looking at airlines, do your homework and know how much you're guaranteed to make each bid/month. I went to Horizon so that I wouldn't have to take too much of a hit on $$ each month. I was still able to make my $800/month for student loan and have enough for my own apartment (no roomies).

Your mileage may vary...just be creative and don't settle for low pay.
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:clap: Nice write up... you definitely hustled as a CFI lol
 
cmill said:
So, the banks deserved a bail out for sub prime loans because "they didnt know better?"
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I don't think ANY of us are arguing that the bankstas deserved anything better than a public tarring and feathering.
 
First off... good on the original poster for asking advice on how to get out of debt, not how to skip out on debt. If you're man enough to be PIC of an aircraft you should be man enough to pay off the debts you agreed to incur.

Dave Ramsey is a great person to listen to. Personally, I've never had any debt other than my mortgage but I had to use his same philosophies to stay out of debt while making 14k as a flight instructor. You can search his 7 baby steps on the internet but the first 2 are your only concern:

1) Get $1000.00 on an emergency fund.
2) Debt snowball to get out of debt (probably not going to happen if your only debt is one big sallie mae loan). The logic here is pay off smaller debts first to make quick progress to keep the momentum going irregardless of ineterest rates.

What I did:

1) Personally, I've never had a car payment. I drive 1200 dollar beaters. I make plenty of money now and still drive 1200 dollar beaters. If you do have a car payment, sell the car and pay off the loan quick. That will be 150-400 right there less spending per month. Take a grand, pay cash for a car, and drive it. I recently bought a late 70's mercury for 700 bucks that is amazingly reliable.

2) Stop going out to eat. No matter how good of a meal deal it is, you can probably do better at home. Maybe you can make three meals out of a little ceaser's 5 dollar pizza and you may be ahead... but eating that daily you'll be spending more time on the toilet then working.

3) Any monthly payments you don't need get rid of. Obviously, you need shelter, water, electricity, gas, and all the essential utilities. What you don't need: Cable TV, Internet, a cell phone, netflix, XM or Sirius, etc. I made it 10 years without cable and using the library for internet. I can now afford both and do appreciate the internet, but the cable TV I've found I don't watch much. Although I do love the Nascar races! I watched a lot of PBS and wheel of fortune over the FREE airwaves for years! It works!

4) Find cheap hobbies. Nobody will be happy working all the time and you do need to live a little. My hobbies: working on my 1200 dollar beater cars. Buy a car manual and keep that old beater running! I bought my Chilton manual used at the local book store for 5 bucks! Do not skimp on preventitive car mx. as that will save you money in the long run. Also, I bought a Guitar! I bought a cheap guitar that was a one time investment (other than guitar strings) and bought some used books on learning guitars. Oher options: get in shape! You don't need to join a club to be in shape. I run or walk almost daily and lift weights in my own home. Another great option: go the library and read books, checkout movies, and use their CD's for music! Bottom line: I was making less money than ever and am now better read, more musically talented, more versed in car mx., and in better shape than I ever was. Even though I can afford more things now (like a cell phone), I still find myself migrating back to reading, playing guitar, and working out and loving it.

5) Get a part time job. I worked parttime at a fastfood restaurant up until a year ago to get my savings up. Granted I was making 7.25 an hour but working 15 hours a week I was able to put 5k in savings a year for a rainy day (which, unfortunately, happens a quite a bit in aviation). 15 hours a week works out to 400 bucks a month before taxes-- a pretty good chunk of your payment! I quit when I bought the duplex I live in now (it's great... my tenant pays my mortgage!) to work on my place and because I can now afford to not work parttime.

6) Do not buy stuff you don't need! Pretty simple. But, after I got out of instructing I moved 1500 miles for a freight job (that I still have) and I could not afford to move anything that I could not fit into my car. After I moved I did not buy anything other than the essentials: cleaning supplies, food, etc. Meaning, I slept in a sleeping bag on the floor of my new place for many months. I got lucky and moved into a place where the guy left a table to eat off, but still slept on the floor for months. I did this to get my savings up (moving costs a fair amount of money!). Hell, I'm 29 and making darn near 70k and still don't own a couch... but I do own a bed now!

7) Do not take on more debt! Do not get credit card debt, do not buy a new car, and do not start buying crap on payment plans! Pretty simple but still something a lot of people do!

It's weird for a lot of people to see how I live. I drive crap, I own nothing (other than an awesome American Standard Telecaster electric guitar that I threw a grand down on because I could finally afford it) worth anything, but I'm happy.

I worked my ass off to stay debt free through college and flight training and truly appreciate what money I do have now. You'll find the same thing when you're out of debt. A great sense of relief! I will say I have not been able to keep up with technology though and people are pretty amazed at now little I know about 'modern' times, but I stayed away because I didn't want to be tempted.

Good luck!
 
gomntwins said:
1) Personally, I've never had a car payment. I drive 1200 dollar beaters. I make plenty of money now and still drive 1200 dollar beaters. If you do have a car payment, sell the car and pay off the loan quick. That will be 150-400 right there less spending per month. Take a grand, pay cash for a car, and drive it. I recently bought a late 70's mercury for 700 bucks that is amazingly reliable.
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While all the points you wrote here I agree with, this one in particular hit home. I drive an old '83 chevy K-5 Blazer full size, but its not really a daily driver or long distance type vehicle, its more an off road 4x4, and I've had it a while and it has 400,000 plus whats on the odometer. So for a daily driver, I bought a 2000 Ford Crown Vic ex- New Mexico State Police, in great shape, although a basic vehicle, for $840. Has all maintenance records and is very reliable, with 21 mpg.

No need for the Audi or the Mercedes here.
 
I think the overall theme is, live within your means. I'm young, have zero debt, but i enjoy going out and driving my car. (a saab which is paid off.) Yeah, I spend a lot of money eating out and going to bars, but my only responsibility is to myself.

I live in a two bedroom shotgun house that i share with a room mate. Basically, I live cheap and spend my money on things that i enjoy. Theres no right or wrong way to do it, i just thing it depends on what stage you're at in your life.

Should i be saving? Yeah. Am i worried about it? not really. I think if somebody is able to sustain their standard of living without going into debt, then more power to them.
 
MikeD said:
I bought a 2000 Ford Crown Vic ex- New Mexico State Police, in great shape, although a basic vehicle, for $840. Has all maintenance records and is very reliable, with 21 mpg.

No need for the Audi or the Mercedes here.
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Oh jeez another vic driver, I drive an 03 ex cruiser, reliable and cheap. Have you checked out our forums?


/hijack
 
b3181981 said:
Forget that you need ten years of eligible payments and service, In ten years that program may not exist.
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Wrong! After 10 years, your debt can be completely forgiven, I'm using this program now and they are playing almost half of my federal student loan payment (more than $100 a month free money). I am in my first year of repayment. ibrinfo.org
 
d_mckerrow06 said:
Wrong! After 10 years, your debt can be completely forgiven, I'm using this program now and they are playing almost half of my federal student loan payment (more than $100 a month free money). I am in my first year of repayment. ibrinfo.org
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Can or Will? That is what I'm getting at. It's no good if they just say can, they must say will be forgiven.
 
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