New "controller" at KJFK Tower...

Anyone ever notice that whenever the media is about to make an assinine statement that it is preceeded with the words "a source familiar with the investigation said," blah, blah, blah.

case in point:

A source familiar with the investigation said a second controller who was supposed to be in charge at the time "should be making sure that things like this don't happen." CNN report
 
Kestrel452 said:
....
......... He was still acting as a controller. .....
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If that's the case, then someone should call CNN and let them know that on any given day there are people acting as pilots flying around without a license as well. :eek:
 
Kestrel452 said:
Where is the common sense in letting a child into a tower and direct traffic? Especially at such busy one to boot. Why should children be allow to talk on the radio while grown adults aren't allowed to even step foot inside the tower unless they're strongly involved with aviation? My ex-RA who is in CTI here can't even visit the class D tower here in town.
".
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LMAO!! Strongly involved in aviation? Seriously dude they have school groups do tours. You just have to know the right people and just about anyone can get a tour of any tower/radar room. I have seen everything from babies to foreign nationals visiting a secretary who works in the office in towers/ radar rooms. My little brother(13 yrs old) has been in 2 centers, 4 towers, and 3 TRACONS. Please get a clue.

Was this stupid of the controller? Yes but not because safety compromised in anyway but because ignorant/clueless people were guaranteed to overreact.


Welcome to America where it life becomes dangerous when McDonalds makes their coffee hot and doesn't advise people in LARGE FONT on the cup/window/sign out front/bathroom door of this fact.
 
cime_sp said:
While there may not be any "harm" in a couple of radio calls....how long was the kid in the tower? Would you not be distracted by your child running around your office. Would the other controllers not be.

Even if not sitting on your lap making radio calls, just him being in the tower is a distraction. Your attention would always be somewhat diverted.

Is this being blown out of proportion? Yes.....but it was still pretty damn stupid.
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+1.

No, I don't think the controller should be fired, and I agree with all of you 'liberals' - based on the pro-controller/anti-FAA-inquiry majority of comments - that the media tends to blow most things out of proportion.
At the same time, I am not a 'fear mongering' person and I am the last person you can blame as being one. I am coming from a country where almost everything is done and referred to in a total opposite way of the so "American by-the-book protocol", trust me.

However, there are places, jobs and professions that in my opinion it is absolute a must that a top notch professionalism be observed and air traffic control tower - especially a busy one like JFK - is one of them.

And those of you who critic my comparison to a surgeon - what about the space shuttle control room, would you allow a child to be on the radio before and during launch?!

Just as the media blows everything out of proportion, there is the sense here that you guys seem to be on the other side of the extreme on most things, and that is underplay it.

Yeah, it was cute, but stupid.
 
SBI said:
+1.

No, I don't think the controller should be fired, and I agree with all of you 'liberals' - based on the pro-controller/anti-FAA-inquiry majority of comments - that the media tends to blow most things out of proportion.
At the same time, I am not a 'fear mongering' person and I am the last person you can blame as being one. I am coming from a country where almost everything is done and referred to in a total opposite way of the so "American by-the-book protocol", trust me.

However, there are places, jobs and professions that in my opinion it is absolute a must that a top notch professionalism be observed and air traffic control tower - especially a busy one like JFK - is one of them.

And those of you who critic my comparison to a surgeon - what about the space shuttle control room, would you allow a child to be on the radio before and during launch?!

Just as the media blows everything out of proportion, there is the sense here that you guys seem to be on the other side of the extreme on most things, and that is underplay it.

Yeah, it was cute, but stupid.
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Wow really dude? How does politics fit into this discussion? :dunno:
 
SBI said:
And those of you who critic my comparison to a surgeon - what about the space shuttle control room, would you allow a child to be on the radio before and during launch?!
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Do you think a child present in the control room would cause a problem? I certainly dont think so. Let a kid do the count down, I am sure it would be a thrilling experience for them. Take it one step further, hold contests at schools around the country for the opportunity to do this, might get more students interested in math and science.
 
I have an old 1980s Sporty's video about "Operation Raincheck" (pre-9/11). According to the video, if you were on a tour and held at least a PPL some facilities would let you shadow a controller and actually plug-in with them and control traffic (in other words, say what the controller tells you to say). I see little difference between this and a father giving his son the chance to see what his job is like every day.

Kestrel, your notion of how elite facility tours are is very blown out of proportion and varies by facility. I visited Norcal TRACON, SMF tower (Class C), and multiple Class D towers while in high school. Good friends of mine have been in the towers at LAX, SAN and SFO (all class B).

Depending on the time of day, traffic and workload, towers are not the most formal of places. Coming up the stairs in one, I was greeted with the light gun shining in my face and a controller asking "Where were you on the night of the 27th?!?!" ATC is a stressful and rigid career with serious consequences to mistakes, and controllers need an outlet to relax and entertain themselves when it's slow.

This was clearly a very supervised event (both by the father and the supervisor in charge) and it has been totally blown out of proportion by the media and the FAA. While I'm normally liveatc's biggest advocate, I really wish that clip was never posted and two good controllers could continue their careers.
 
SBI said:
And those of you who critic my comparison to a surgeon - what about the space shuttle control room, would you allow a child to be on the radio before and during launch?!
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Why not? I hardly doubt a kid would screw up the "3...2...1..." countdown. Even if they did, well, people would figure it out. And so what if a kid is on the radio? Kids talk on radios to the astronauts in space ALL THE TIME. Even from the control room in Houston ;) Fun thing to do with a ham radio, really. I've tried it from home.

I've seen real controllers make some pretty big screwups, clearing landing traffic for takeoffs, issuing instructions to the wrong flight #, all kinds of things. On the level of danger scale (0-10), I rate this kid about a -2. He's already better than most of ZBW and ZMA (i keeed, i keeed... ;)
 
We are scared of our own shadows anymore, because we might offend someone or their sensabilities. The PC movement is the reason that anyone with zero brain cells and no common sense, has the right to get indignant over the stupidist of things. America GET A FRIGGIN LIFE ALREADY...jeeez You mark my words they will witch hunt for the pilots next, bunch of idiots.
 
inigo88 said:
Kestrel, your notion of how elite facility tours are is very blown out of proportion and varies by facility. I visited Norcal TRACON, SMF tower (Class C), and multiple Class D towers while in high school. Good friends of mine have been in the towers at LAX, SAN and SFO (all class B).
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In my experience, it has never been a big deal getting a tower tour. Just call and ask. Hell, I've got most of the Florida tower numbers in my cellphone.
 
boondr said:
My little brother(13 yrs old) has been in 2 centers, 4 towers, and 3 TRACONS. Please get a clue.
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:yeahthat:

boondr said:
Was this stupid of the controller? Yes but not because safety compromised in anyway but because ignorant/clueless people were guaranteed to overreact.

Welcome to America where life becomes dangerous when McDonalds makes their coffee hot and doesn't advise people in LARGE FONT on the cup/window/sign out front/bathroom door of this fact.
Click to expand...

:clap::clap::clap::yeahthat::clap::clap::clap:
 
inigo88 said:
I have an old 1980s Sporty's video about "Operation Raincheck" (pre-9/11). According to the video, if you were on a tour and held at least a PPL some facilities would let you shadow a controller and actually plug-in with them and control traffic (in other words, say what the controller tells you to say). I see little difference between this and a father giving his son the chance to see what his job is like every day.

Kestrel, your notion of how elite facility tours are is very blown out of proportion and varies by facility. I visited Norcal TRACON, SMF tower (Class C), and multiple Class D towers while in high school. Good friends of mine have been in the towers at LAX, SAN and SFO (all class B).

Depending on the time of day, traffic and workload, towers are not the most formal of places. Coming up the stairs in one, I was greeted with the light gun shining in my face and a controller asking "Where were you on the night of the 27th?!?!" ATC is a stressful and rigid career with serious consequences to mistakes, and controllers need an outlet to relax and entertain themselves when it's slow.

This was clearly a very supervised event (both by the father and the supervisor in charge) and it has been totally blown out of proportion by the media and the FAA. While I'm normally liveatc's biggest advocate, I really wish that clip was never posted and two good controllers could continue their careers.
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Exactly if you see my post above my little brother has exactly zero aviation background beyond his brother(me) being a controller. Towers/ radar rooms are not some super sterile environment where people in black sunglasses and business suits make top secret decisions that must be kept from public view. Clueless trainees talk to planes all the time and do more than parrot.
 
SBI said:
+1.

And those of you who critic my comparison to a surgeon - what about the space shuttle control room, would you allow a child to be on the radio before and during launch?!

Just as the media blows everything out of proportion, there is the sense here that you guys seem to be on the other side of the extreme on most things, and that is underplay it.

Yeah, it was cute, but stupid.
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I can answer that one. They do not allow a children into Mission Control during critical phase which is ascent and entry. They do allow "visitors" into Mission Control during missions. Those visitors do talk to both the space shuttle and space station crewmembers. Now, are you saying those two scenarios are comparable to each other? Working in both FAA airspace and Mission Control, I would be inclined to disagree. If and when spaceflight becomes a "commercial" endeavor. . .

Given the reaction of this action by a naive, STUPID public, call the action stupid. . .because THOSE people think so.
 
Nigel Croker said:
WRONG...he was acting as a speaker, just like the one in your headset..the Dad was controlling. Dad gave the clearance in the microphone (the kids ear) and out through the speaker (the kid)
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KLB said:
When you did your first intro flight, I'm sure at some point you were on the contols but the instructor was flying the plane.;) Do you understand what I'm getting at here?
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Excellent ways to put this in perspective, IMHO

SBI said:
And those of you who critic my comparison to a surgeon - what about the space shuttle control room, would you allow a child to be on the radio before and during launch?!
Click to expand...

Matt13C said:
Do you think a child present in the control room would cause a problem? I certainly dont think so. Let a kid do the count down, I am sure it would be a thrilling experience for them. Take it one step further, hold contests at schools around the country for the opportunity to do this, might get more students interested in math and science.
Click to expand...

Absolutely agree with letting them do the countdown...the kid wouldn't actually be pushing the launch button, will he? This is a perfect parallel to the examples given above - just because the kid is saying the words, it doesn't mean he's the one in control.
 
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