House votes today on 1500hr rule WITH college loophole

RightSeatGirl said:
In my opinion here is what should be considered as fact regarding this well done debate:

What a College Degree will NOT do for you:

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What a College Degree will do for you:


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So in conclusion this debate is silly as the facts, as I see them, are obvious. A college degree is nothing but a positive thing and everyone capable of earning one should get one. I doubt you can find anyone my age or older without a degree that does not wish they had earned one. But we must not count out an individual's, without a degree, ability for self-education, drive, resourcefulness and creativity when it comes to becoming successful in life as a pilot or otherwise. To do so would be arrogant. Does a degree give one an advantage? Of course! But lack of one can make success despite that fact all the more satisfying as in many instances it clearly takes much more effort to become so. But that does not detract for the sense of pride that earning a degree can bring. As for me, at the age of 40, I'm very seriously thinking of going back to school and finishing my degree.


So for prospective professional pilots: Go to college! Life will be easier! But if you hate school and just want to fly...Go for it! Presently a lack of degree will not keep you out of the cockpit! I doubt it will ever be so, but there is always the possibility that the future could bring legislation or industry standards to the point where even contacts and recommendations will not help you. We are not there today, in my opinion, not even close. But things do seem to be trending in that direction so consider that when considering this issue.

As far as the topic at hand goes, the college loophole in my opinion will have little to do with actual safety or job ability. When talking about a difference of maybe a few hundred hours at most with pilots that have in all likelihood less than 2000 hours tt, in a 121 environment it's irrelevant. I have just over 2000 tt and I am still learning a great deal nearly every day. My general knowledge, skill level etc. is exceedingly deficit to those with over 5000 tt. Personally I consider myself low-time. Even with 1500 of that 2000 in a 121 cockpit I have a long way to go until I am even ready for upgrade. So, if they wanna give the college boys and girls a little break for being smart enough to go to college, I say let them.
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Excellent point. So, why would a nondegreed person argue/contradict your premises when it's a plus/advantage?
 
I think it's because some youthful prospective pilots that don't have a degree and don't want to get one become defensive when the educated arrogant of "Generation Entitlement" tell such folk they will never get a decent flying job. It's a two way shooting range where both positions are neither completely right or completely wrong.
 
MFT1Air said:
Excellent point. So, why would a nondegreed person argue/contradict your premises when it's a plus/advantage?
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Because for some it’s not an advantage. Sorry, I’m just bitter. I have watched several close friends struggle the last 8 years or so with student loan debt without the prospect of paying off that debt. Even some of them had to go through bankruptcies, lose houses, spouses, delay families etc. And I’m talking about very intelligent, hardworking, sacrificing individuals. I think that model of going to school to get a good job is broken.


“A college degree is nothing but a positive thing and everyone capable of earning one should get one.”

Very well argued Rightsealgirl.

I am not trying to argue that going to college is a bad thing. I am trying to say don’t subject yourself to the outrageous price tag of a degree if you really could not afford one. Its also not a limiting factor in ones success in life. Don’t think that just because you didn’t go to college that you will not achieve your goals. If your goals do not include a college education than do not go to college just because people tell you will be handicapped if you don’t go.

For 6 years I have tried the “go to school to get a good job” plan. It sucked and has been a waste of money and opportunity. At a young age I have said screw it I’m making my own way. Now I’m doing better than most senior airline pilots with much more satisfaction and more time for myself. And guess what? No degree. The circle of friends I surround myself with-very successful but no degrees. Only problem I have now is trying to correct the last six years.

Sorry MFT1Air. That comment was directed to Subpilot.

I really feel this conversation would go over much more friendly if its face to face. :)
 
This 1500 hour thing is the last nail on the coffin, I'm speaking with a USMC officer recruiter next week about getting a flight slot.

Sorry but I don't want to instruct for piss poor wages (and uncertainty) for the next 3 years to land a $20k/year job.
 
Hey, if you are not in a position to get a degree I totally understand. I would not be able to get one now if I wanted to due to work and family. I was just fortunate to have a good opportunity at one time and I took advantage of it. I agree that you can make it without and you should not go bankrupt trying to get a degree. With all that though, I still feel that it is a resume attention getter that will give you an upper hand. When a company has the hiring floodgates open then everyone gets through but when it is a trickle you had better have a way to stand above the rest.
 
It's amazing how all the people that got into the flight deck at less than 1500TT are such big advocates of this new rule. So am I to understand that all of the pilots that are out there flying regional jets and props with less than that time are just ticking time bombs for safety? Where is this increase in pilot pay money going to come from? as a pilot looking up this totally sucks. I do have a college degree however....
 
DenverPilot8 said:
It's amazing how all the people that got into the flight deck at less than 1500TT are such big advocates of this new rule. So am I to understand that all of the pilots that are out there flying regional jets and props with less than that time are just ticking time bombs for safety? Where is this increase in pilot pay money going to come from? as a pilot looking up this totally sucks. I do have a college degree however....
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Self-reflection, most likely. Looking back and realizing how of a burden you were to the captain in the left seat, even if it was just for a month or two. Or maybe now that you're a captain you're hoping to get FOs that are more prepared than you were at the time you were hired.
 
DenverPilot8 said:
It's amazing how all the people that got into the flight deck at less than 1500TT are such big advocates of this new rule. So am I to understand that all of the pilots that are out there flying regional jets and props with less than that time are just ticking time bombs for safety? Where is this increase in pilot pay money going to come from? as a pilot looking up this totally sucks. I do have a college degree however....
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It's the "I got mine" game; now that they're in they support raising minimums in hopes of an increased salary.
 
PGT said:
It's the "I got mine" game; now that they're in they support raising minimums in hopes of an increased salary.
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It has nothing to do with I got mine. It has all to do with making this profession better. I personally would not have given up as easily as you have because I didn't want to flight instruct. You made that post on the message board, and I'm tickled to death to see that folks are already saying the hell with flying. Open your eyes, there are so many opportunities to fly outside 121. If you got into flying just so you could go get in a CRJ at 250 hours you were in it for all the wrong reasons.

If you truly love aviation, which really does matter in this business if you are going to stick around because obviously starting out bites the big one, then take some advice from your own signature line...

"The good old days weren't all that good, and tomorrow's not as bad as it seems"
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I was raised with the notion that I was going to get a bachelors degree no matter what (both of my parents went to college). And I can't say it's been such a bad thing. If anything it helps with time management, especially if you want to have a life.

I chose an aviation related degree. I know many on here argue it's much better to have something non-aviation related, but I didn't know any better at the time, and I didn't have a place like this site to get any advice. So I've tried to make the most out of my situation, specializing in aviation safety. Has this made me a safer pilot? Maybe, maybe not. :dunno: Has it forced me to look at things from a different perspective? Most definitely.

Although it's not for everyone, a college degree can never hurt.
 
joliet said:
It has nothing to do with I got mine. It has all to do with making this profession better. I personally would not have given up as easily as you have because I didn't want to flight instruct. You made that post on the message board, and I'm tickled to death to see that folks are already saying the hell with flying. Open your eyes, there are so many opportunities to fly outside 121. If you got into flying just so you could go get in a CRJ at 250 hours you were in it for all the wrong reasons.

If you truly love aviation, which really does matter in this business if you are going to stick around because obviously starting out bites the big one, then take some advice from your own signature line...
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I don't think my point came out exactly the way I wanted it to. I'll gladly PM you and talk about it, I could always use some advice from someone who's already in the industry.
 
PGT said:
This 1500 hour thing is the last nail on the coffin, I'm speaking with a USMC officer recruiter next week about getting a flight slot.

Sorry but I don't want to instruct for piss poor wages (and uncertainty) for the next 3 years to land a $20k/year job.
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I thought you said you were the only one in your class defending this, and that this was a good thing. Why is it now seen as the last straw?
 
PGT said:
I'm speaking with a USMC officer recruiter next week about getting a flight slot.
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So you can run a 90% chance of not flying fixed wing and a 50% chance of leading an artilery battery (or something else on the ground) for the next 6 years?
 
PGT said:
It's the "I got mine" game; now that they're in they support raising minimums in hopes of an increased salary.
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Not at all. I had ATP mins when I got hired at my first regional, as did most of my classmates...and we still all felt pretty overwhelmed with training and flying the line at the beginning. It's an "oh crap, I can't imagine being an FO with 300hrs" thing for a lot of us.
 
mwflyer said:
I thought you said you were the only one in your class defending this, and that this was a good thing. Why is it now seen as the last straw?
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Because instructing for 2-3 years to start at 20k a year does not sound fun. I don't want to be in my mid to late 20's working for 30k a year. I have friends who made that out of high school AND they're home every night.

I figured I could get on with a regional shortly out of college, but I realized the regionals aren't all that. However, finding a good 91/135 gig is hard.

USMCmech said:
So you can run a 90% chance of not flying fixed wing and a 50% chance of leading an artilery battery (or something else on the ground) for the next 6 years?
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I'll take rotor or fixed wing. My friend I talked to was guaranteed a flight slot before he went in so I'll follow his route.
 
PGT said:
I'll take rotor or fixed wing. My friend I talked to was guaranteed a flight slot before he went in so I'll follow his route.
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But you're okay with leading a ground unit, right? Several of my friends didn't make it through initial training, while others got their wings only to get a ground assignment. Are you comfortable with those outcomes? If so, I sincerely wish you good luck! If not, you might want to reconsider.
 
PGT said:
Because instructing for 2-3 years to start at 20k a year does not sound fun. I don't want to be in my mid to late 20's working for 30k a year. I have friends who made that out of high school AND they're home every night.
.
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Sometimes comparing yourself and your progress to your friend's is not the best idea. I'm probably about 10 yrs old than you and I'd say about 50% of my friends are just settling into their careers now at 30ish yrs old. The majority getting out of college and beginning to work, then only to go back to grad school and law school.

Being a CFI for a few years while you're in your 20's really is the best time to do it...You are home, very flexible schedule. Ok you're not making bank but IMO you're getting experience working towards a goal. My friends in grad school had side jobs at well making little money.

All I'm saying is being a CFI at 25 yrs old and then getting into your next gig isn't so bad.

Now if you're on the family fast track, planning to get married in your 20s with kids, sure...maybe being on the gov't payroll is the safest way to play it.

FYI- I did graduate, instruct for a few years, fly some 135, and made it to a regional at 26. It was a fun ride, sure a little struggling but don't regret a thing.
 
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