Owner Mentality
- Thread starter Socal321
- Start date
Thank you, I wish I had this with my previous employer. Part time work and they tried to force me to stay there, of course it didn't work. Still would have been nice to show this to them instead of just be a employee and tell them no.
Clocks
Well-Known Member
There also have a sweet that that says you can quit any time w/o even a reason.
FWIW, I couldn't find any "law" that requires it online...other than minimum wage laws. I'll see if I can get in touch with her tomorrow.
-mini
jynxyjoe
Queso King
Lol. I got paid like crap at my previous CFI job. I didn't ask for much and I got no training. They didn't care about CFI'ing or me. I left, I gave them two weeks, and when they got pissy at me (oh they did) I told them, "my last paycheck was 150 bucks, of course I'm trying to find another job".
Next guy that came in, demanded more pay and better treatment before he'd do a damn thing for them. He got it, and he's still there working, and from what I heard last, he's still there.
Amazing what happens when you give a damn about your employees, doesn't work every time but it sure seems to improve an employers chances.
Next guy that came in, demanded more pay and better treatment before he'd do a damn thing for them. He got it, and he's still there working, and from what I heard last, he's still there.
Amazing what happens when you give a damn about your employees, doesn't work every time but it sure seems to improve an employers chances.
poser765
Well-Known Member
No it's not JUST about money, but money is a pretty big part of it. Even from the start of a CFI's new career he goes into with the mindset that it is something that is to be done and moved on from primarily because of money. People often call this a dues paying industry and teaching is the first step in paying those dues...and that is how a LOT of people look at it. If people want teaching to be anything other than paying dues, the fist step is to pay a reasonable wage.
Granted $200 paychecks are not unheard of at my school i stay there because it is the only foothold i can get in the industry right now. Not seeing any moving up or better paying jobs. Because of those 200 dollar paychecks i will be out the door when anything better does come up. Now If I could do this for a good salary I would probably retire from teaching. Still trying to work out how to do that...have a couple of ideas.
Granted $200 paychecks are not unheard of at my school i stay there because it is the only foothold i can get in the industry right now. Not seeing any moving up or better paying jobs. Because of those 200 dollar paychecks i will be out the door when anything better does come up. Now If I could do this for a good salary I would probably retire from teaching. Still trying to work out how to do that...have a couple of ideas.
Nihon_Ni
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't either. Show me any business that can operate where employees just split at a moment's notice? Given the choice between a furloughed pilot who intends to return to his job and a low time pilot who will be there for a while until he gains enough experience to qualify for the next job, a decision based solely on longevity points toward junior.
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
Most states do.
Btw, anyone else notice a bit of a disconnect between being pro-labor in the posts and anti-labor in the signature graphic?
Thanks mini.
Douglas
Old School KSUX
either way it's a party.
I don't understand. It's cool to hate a President, isn't it? We did it with Slick Willy, Dubya and now Hitler's buddy Obama. Doesn't matter if it doesn't suit your agenda.
I mostly ignore signatures anymore anyway.
-mini
Mike H
Well-Known Member
Just wondering how they manage to do that since even the ones you do sign are nearly unenforceable except in fairly limited circumstances
Inverted25
Well-Known Member
Without looking I dont know for sure but Maryland may be one of the eight at will states. In a at will state the employer may terminate an a employee "for good cause, or bad cause, or no cause at all"
The other 42 states have laws against this. I'm to lazy to see if Maryland is one of the eight but it sounds like it.
All states are "at will". Several (I think 42 is the correct) have adopted certain exceptions to the rule. Check with your attorney to see how those exceptions apply to CFIs.
-mini
Inverted25
Well-Known Member
Well techincally yes all states fall under at will but 42 states have laws preventing firing for no clause. So 8 states still fall under true at will states.
In certain cases, yes. Not in all cases. You'd need to check with an attorney to see if you're one of those cases.
-mini
vikingair
Well-Known Member
I can understand and sympathize with the employers problem when an employee leaves shortly after starting. Its difficult to flush out a benefit from high turnover, particularily if you feel that you've "invested" a great deal of time/money/effort in developing the new employee. Of course this requires a bit of a caveat..if your input consists of a checkout flight paid for by the prospective CFI, a five minute speil about how the last CFI "screwed over" the school so now the pay is $9/hr for the first six months and handing them a I9 forms to fill out so they can pay thier own taxes then it seems a bit misplaced to expect much loyalty whatsoever.
I've seen more flight school owners than not display a sense of entitlement over employees labor based on the idea that they are "allowing" the instructor to build hours.
The most confusing to me however how many times Ive heard echoed the tale of the instructor who stuck around. He didn't cut and run at the first job offer that popped up on Findapilot. He was there even on bad weather days. He filled in at dispatch, put together a ground school package, brought in new students. His experience has saved your butt, a student, an airframe more than once. He can't even remember all the other instructors who have come and gone but he knows every student, even the ones he's never flown with. Being a "senior instructor" hasn't brought much of a pay raise, if at all. Maybe he even accepted a pay decrease! but by now you've given him the access code to the office copier, trust him to drive your car to be detailed and once you bought pizza for lunch. He (or she of course) has been an all around professional and acted at all times under the notion that your sucess and his are intertwined.
A year and a half later he asks if you would write a recommendation or you hear about an interview he is hoping to get. He has given his all and really hasn't asked for much before. You fire him that afternoon and on the drive home you are already practicing what you'll tell the next interviewee about how important pilot development is to you and how much you want to see them succeed.
I've seen more flight school owners than not display a sense of entitlement over employees labor based on the idea that they are "allowing" the instructor to build hours.
The most confusing to me however how many times Ive heard echoed the tale of the instructor who stuck around. He didn't cut and run at the first job offer that popped up on Findapilot. He was there even on bad weather days. He filled in at dispatch, put together a ground school package, brought in new students. His experience has saved your butt, a student, an airframe more than once. He can't even remember all the other instructors who have come and gone but he knows every student, even the ones he's never flown with. Being a "senior instructor" hasn't brought much of a pay raise, if at all. Maybe he even accepted a pay decrease! but by now you've given him the access code to the office copier, trust him to drive your car to be detailed and once you bought pizza for lunch. He (or she of course) has been an all around professional and acted at all times under the notion that your sucess and his are intertwined.
A year and a half later he asks if you would write a recommendation or you hear about an interview he is hoping to get. He has given his all and really hasn't asked for much before. You fire him that afternoon and on the drive home you are already practicing what you'll tell the next interviewee about how important pilot development is to you and how much you want to see them succeed.
Seems to me you worked at the same place I did, and quit.
A little story here. One place I worked at had the exact bolded attitude towards their instructors. A person walks in one day, and he owns a Mooney. He wants an IPC/BFR. Now mind you, we were all "contract" employees. And there was no contract to sign. Just a "gentlemans agreement." The kid that was in charge of who knows what, tells the guy, that he will have to fly one of their effed up 172's if he wants to do buisness at that local. The guy, and rightly so, refuses to fly a 172 when he owns a Mooney. He comes up to me, and asks me if I will help him out. And I agree, but like I was told in my "gentlemans agreement" I tell him we will discuss it outside. After I finish, I get called into the office manager's office for a talking to. She told me (notice the quotes) "thanks for takeing money out of our pocket for the airplane rental." I think to myself "WHAT, are you even serious right now?" Had they told the guy something along the lines of we'd like you to use one of our airplanes, but there is our instructors cards, pick one of them up and give them a call, then mabey, just mabey, he would have bought charts, supplies, and mabey had some maintence done there.
So Back to the talking to. I ask her if I am an employee, to which she relpies no. So I tell her then I'll do what I damn well please when it doesn't concern them. She then proceeds to tell me that I have the "privilage" of useing their airplanes (which were maint. nighmares, in poor shape, etc.), and also have the privilage of useing their building that has AC, etc. Well, lastime I check, the pilots lounge had all that stuff, and it was free as well. And the compter wasn't so locked down that I could actually do a proper wx brief. And the worst part, the rest of the instructors there put up with it because "it's a job."
Now the way I see it. We are there to scratch each others back. I make sure your airplanes get flown so you can generate revenue, and bring people into the pilot shop, so that no matter where it comes from, there is money comming in. And you provide me with the tools to generate income for myself. If someone wants to pull out the "privilage" card, you have the privilage of me generating you income from me teaching people in your airplanes, and I have the privilage of useing your airplanes to feed my family. If you pay me fairly for the work I do, and don't require me to be there with no pay, we will have a great relationship. If you pay me poorly for the work I do, or don't allow me to charge a fair price for my knowledge, and require me to be there with no incentive, then how do you expect me to take care of you, if you don't take care of me.
I am not some dumb kid who wants to fly simply because it is fun. I have a family, and everyminute you require me to stay away from them with no incentive (read as benifit to my family) just makes me angry. And if you constantly make me angry, I am not going to take care of you
BrewMaster
Well-Known Member
What would you do if they didn't allow you to use their airplanes? How many people have you recruited and brought in as opposed to people that walk in the door(like this guy)?
As a CFI, I agree that your services deserve proper compensation, but if they have instructors as their "employees," then they have the right to tell you that. If you aren't their employee, they really are giving you an opportunity to make money, you aren't keeping them in business. It sucks but that's the reality. Again I'm with you, but I'm just playing devil's advocate.
Edit* I was getting a little lost in your post, so if I'm responding incorrectly let me know. That's just what I took from it.
