Pinnacle has reached a TA!!!

cencal83406 said:
ii. If a suitable and accessible crew lounge is available at
the airport (including a suitable FBO lounge arranged for
by the Company), the company may provide such
facility in lieu of providing a day room. :insane:


9C1-3
We are allowed to refuse functional check flights if we determine they might not be safe, and will not get disciplined for that…. UNLESS the Chief Pilot determines it was unjustified – what happened to PIC authority?


Oh and 10 days off for reserves.... awesome!

A few examples of this travesty.
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Not good.

cencal83406 said:
The real question is.... once we as a pilot group (and no one else, as much as many people scream "we're the next Mesa) decide OUR contract isn't passing muster.... what do we do as far as representation? I've heard that the "gold standard" is NetJets who got rid of their MEC and within 90 days went from a reject TA to a nice shiny new one.

However, I don't necessarily think it's the Reps (all of them) that are the problem. Wasn't this thing majorly TA'd before the current administration (MEC)?
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The significant parts of the TA were all done under the current administration. Not to say that there weren't problems with the process under the old administration, though. WG was always knee-deep in everything himself, and he did his best to keep the rest of the MEC at arm's length. It was always a struggle to have any real involvement.
 
Sorry guys. Do what you have to do and make it right. And, if the group still isn't happy with your MEC's performance, then perhaps some very tough decisions need to be made.
 
Let me put on my fortune teller hat...

ok..

IF the complaining and reality sets in for the pilot group and this gets voted down by a STRONG majority (like the strike vote was a strong majority) I think a few things will occur. MEM will have 2 new reps. The current FO rep has "other ambitions" which I personally endorse. The CA rep... well he is trying to sell the ice to the eskimos and most have been able to see the real situation. Before this recall ever came to fruition he was given a chance to show his position which would have "called off the dogs", but nobody from any range of the seniority list or either seat was pleased. Your "yes man" delivered as advertised and is putting forth a fine effort of trying to "sell"- also as advertised.

That's some fresh blood- apathy in Memphis is now gone.

I can see the negotiating committee having 2/3 swap out. The current FO rep/negotiator would either remain on the NC or more realistically be replaced by another who is close to matters (other ambitions put's the FO rep in much of a supervisory/consultant arena). The NC chair will most likely fall on the sword and resign- which is customary, expected,and without ANY negative connotation to his name. This man has endured more "pain and suffering" by dealing with the mgmt team than most- I give him my utmost respect.


All that being said for "changes" I can see mgmt trying to lowball a quick offer with only a couple handouts, it will be up to MEC to take this deal and carve a new path. There is not 1 or 2 sections with issues- there are many. MOST of this TA was signed 2-3 years ago. The brunt of the contract (even much of the meat and potatoes) was done by summer 07 if you look at signing dates on the TA sections. It will be up to the MEC- who will represent the needs, wants, and desires of each council to decide if this is something that needs to be open heart surgery (most sections opened) or just a stint (a few major improvements in limited areas to make the package acceptable). The timetable grows as the sections get opened- at least that's an easy way to look at it.

JC is public, my name is public- nothing that is said here is not already in crewrooms or on the union site. I would love to play a round of golf with some of these mgmt guys and talk away from the lawyers. This doesn't need to be rocket science- you want "simply the best", you pay a fair wage and fair work rules. You can't get a BMW for the price of a kia- unless it's a used lemon.

I'll pay for the golf, you buy the lunch.
 
cencal83406 said:
The real question is.... once we as a pilot group (and no one else, as much as many people scream "we're the next Mesa) decide OUR contract isn't passing muster.... what do we do as far as representation? I've heard that the "gold standard" is NetJets who got rid of their MEC and within 90 days went from a reject TA to a nice shiny new one.

However, I don't necessarily think it's the Reps (all of them) that are the problem. Wasn't this thing majorly TA'd before the current administration (MEC)?
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I say if we vote it down we get rid of ALPA for good and start a new union focused on regional airlines. 5 years and this is what we get, its pathetic. Why didnt they just TA this 2 years ago.
 
The "problem areas" of the MEC are either dealt with or up for a vote. Both were given the option to resign and allow this group to get new reps in quickly with no hits to the ego, and all the support for a group that preaches 99% unity. The "hard way" was decided by both, and there is a process for that. I am bias, yes, but I have spun my wheels enough to see that being a team player gets things done- that's the point of a union. The politics and personal BS needs to stop- this is the QOL and livelihood for 1300 for 5-10 years, not to be taken as "not a big deal". 5-10yrs is a big deal, and not just for the top 10%- but for the top 99%. This deal also has implications on the thousands of regional pilots that we use as an "average" and will be depending on to help raise the industry in the coming years and decades.

Let's not turn this into a public bashing or even a discussion- I know I have said my points (and admitted that I am heated over it), but MEM pilots have a vote- crewroom.alpa.org. Vote as you see fit. Discussion can be had on the company board. The rest of the pilots know about the other recall by the email from the Chairman of the MEC.


Back to the TA.
 
jynxyjoe said:
is the current Pinnacle MEM CA rep (MEC?) Scott Erikson? I've only heard him spoken very highly of.
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Short answer... no. SE is out of MSP.




Off Topic: I understand JV might be crashing with you with his new next to bottom reserve duties. Let me know when both of you might be in town at the same time... might have to get together for a bit.


Now...

Back to the TA! :pop::pop:
 
Anyone who calls for Scott's head is oblivious to what has unfolded and he will be vehemently defended.

The Vice Chair has been recalled. The MEM LEC CA status rep has a recall vote out on the ballot right now. Hope there wasn't too much confusion.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Kell, can you clarify? What items are concessionary? First time I've heard that it's worse than current book.
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Reserves can be put back on reserve for up to 12 hours past the end of the previous rest period
10 days off for reserves
We can bid in seniority order for long call, short call, CDO reserve and ready reserve. BUT the language says planning will sort it in seniority order and honor it "to the extent possible." Then there's no provisions in there to keep them from dropping 5 or 6 8.5 hour ready reserves on every reserve pilot.
No protection from downgrades or furloughs due to dual qual. They get enough -900 guys dual qualed on the -200 and find ourselves suddenly fat....see ya junior guys.
Medical insurance. Co-pays DOUBLE over the life of the contract. Premiums can go up the same amount annual as they did under the 99 agreement.
401k is still current book

That's my TOP issues. There are other smaller ones, but I can't in good conscience vote "yes" on a contract that so obviously chunks the reserve pilots under the bus.
 
Talking with my Pinnacle buddies about this and they share the same feeling about it that Kellwolf does. They think a lot of the senior guys might want to vote it in. My question is: If it doesnt pass what the next step?
 
Back to the table, and to the NMB for a release when the company says "No" to our counter offer. A release puts all the negotiating capital in our wheelhouse- which is all you can ask for. NOBODY is expecting to have the best contract in all 31 sections, but it is an expectation that after 4+ years with contract flying for 8+ years, and industry leading performance that we would not have THE industry LAGGING deal. Expectations were high and the reality was a big low for many.

The only way this would get voted through is the same 99% group admitting contract fatigue just wanting a couple bucks now instead of true compensation for 5-10 years. This is something that SHOULD NOT be a short term viewpoint.
 
SmoothLanderJ said:
My question is: If it doesnt pass what the next step?
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Back to the negotiating table. I'm sure the MEC will immediately request a release, and I'm equally sure that the NMB will deny it outright. So, that leaves further mediation. It will be up to the MEC to decide whether to continue with the same NC or to replace them. Replacing them would probably lead to a longer time before a new TA, but it may prevent other problems. Lots of tough choices ahead if the pilots vote it down.
 
higney85 said:
The only way this would get voted through is the same 99% group admitting contract fatigue just wanting a couple bucks now instead of true compensation for 5-10 years. This is something that SHOULD NOT be a short term viewpoint.
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I really hope that does not happen. I hope everyone can remain focused and have a little more patience.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Lots of tough choices ahead if the pilots vote it down.
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Some times tough choices are required. It sure would be shallow for a pilot group who overwhelmingly (it appears) disapproves of this TA to vote YES just because they don't want to make the "tough choices."
 
I am hoping history can repeat itself in that we (as 9E pilots) will stand our grond and vote this down. Giving in to fatigue and giving management a "management friendly" deal with compensation based on an "average", only LOWERS compensation for us, everyone else, and our entire futures. I have never run across a pilot who felt a "cooperate, graduate" philosophy led to success. As type-A personalities we need to harness the ability to stand up for what WE feel is earned by hard work. Nobody flies a plane with "fear", why should we negotiate and live by a contract that is "Fear induced". It's been 4+ years, some more time can only help us- as long as we stay unified in our convictions.
 
SmoothLanderJ said:
Talking with my Pinnacle buddies about this and they share the same feeling about it that Kellwolf does. They think a lot of the senior guys might want to vote it in. My question is: If it doesnt pass what the next step?
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The next step is to get rid of everyone and start a new union. A union run by equal parts of senior and junior guys and a union that focuses on regioinal airlines. I will lead it if you guys want. I will send out cards. We can call it the PPA. My first step will be to get WG fired.
 
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