Pinnacle has reached a TA!!!

ATN_Pilot said:
From what I've been hearing, it's pretty good. Retirement still sucks ass, but lots of improvements in other areas, and scope is excellent. Overall, sounds like a good deal.
Click to expand...

From what I've been hearing, it sucks! Vote no. 10 days off for reserves???? 1 hour of pay for 9 hours of ready reserve? 900 rates the SAME? No COLA?

What the crack have you been smokin if you think this is good?

aloft said:
It'll be interesting to see what sort of anti-Colgan provisions it contains.
Click to expand...

aloft said:
Do you?

It's a legit question, bro. The Pinnacle/Colgan thing is ripe for whipsaw; otherwise, why would they need scope improvements?
Click to expand...

Just wanted your question to be put in bold. Your question is NOT legit. "Anti-Colgan" would imply that our MEC is out to get Colgan pilots. We're not out to do that despite some of the crap rhetoric on some boards. So what, they have Q400s that were purchased with Pinnacle Inc earnings.... Just keep the houses separate.... nothing at the expense of another in a contract.

FYI, everyone, it's a no vote already based on what I've heard. There would have to be a pony for every pilot in the contract, and 2 for Higney, for me to vote yes. But I will read it.... I'm not voting no "because its the first TA".
 
Not to go off topic, but is the TA going to help with more block hours? Has there been a reduction in hours for September? I had recevied an email in February that all interviews and classes were suspended until 2010. Does anyone here that works for 9E think that it happen sooner?

Any positive information will be highly apprciated.
 
kellwolf said:
If what I'm hearing is true (retirement sucks so we keep the medical benefits) I can kinda sorta live with that.
Click to expand...

We always knew that compromises were going to have to be made to hold on to the insurance plan. Insurance is the only thing we had that was truly industry-leading, and by a good margin. I'm not sure that I wouldn't have traded some higher premiums for slighter better retirement, though. Tough call. What's done is done, though.

surreal1221 said:
I'd be really interested in seeing the scheduling section.
Click to expand...

Scheduling was TA'd three years ago when I was still on the MEC. Mucho improvements, but still not up to the same level as ASA or XJT. That was just too high of a hurdle to clear for this agreement. Gotta prioritize.

cencal83406 said:
From what I've been hearing, it sucks! Vote no. 10 days off for reserves???? 1 hour of pay for 9 hours of ready reserve? 900 rates the SAME? No COLA?

What the crack have you been smokin if you think this is good?
Click to expand...

Wait till you read the whole agreement. No need to render judgement before you've seen the whole package. Don't trust all the rumors.
 
Insurance is NOT industry leading with the costs across the life of the contract. 401k is the worst in the industry, where insurance Is good- but rates can DOUBLE. For single rates (very cheap) and family rates (also good) there were limits in 1999 for health care increases in monthly cost that was a good deal (they even included a "COLA" for THEIR costs). With a new deal the rates will continue to rise- I will not post specific numbers but the healthcare costs are through the roof and way over budget due to preemies (premature babies) this year alone. Did I mention we still have no retiree help in the healthcare dept and the baby wellness still has us telling pilots to go to health services clinics? Our 401K is beyond ridiculous. We are way below industry average (we set the floor) and even within own company we are the lowest. Before Corp started crying poor (to justify shutting off 401k match) it was 100% of the first 5% match, heck the FA's had 100% of the first 6%. We get 25% of the first 5%.
No Rigs, no -900 raises to YOS+1 and the -200 rates are nothing to brag about. There is movement on getting the signing bonus equation fixed, and dual qual is in to be "arbitrated" at between 3-4 crews per plane. With all the info I have seen it needs to be knocked down at the MEC level.
 
Higney, I know you're an R & I guy, so you know this stuff relatively well, but start comparing your plan to what other carriers have, and even with doubling your premiums you're still doing damn good. You would have a heart attack if you saw what I pay out in premiums here at AirTran. We have guys with families on the "platinum" plan that pay nearly as much in premiums as a Pinnacle FO makes in take-home compensation each month.

Yes, the 401k absolutely sucks at Pinnacle. No argument there. But you have to look at the overall deal. Does the total compensation package match up to what you think you should get? I think it's pretty close.

The -200 rates are pretty good, the -900 rates were already pretty good when arbitrated, and rigs were probably too much to expect when you had such a huge step to take with just getting trip value or better. The dual qual issue was handled in a very creative way that will set the vacancies at a level that has been historically normal for PCL staffing.

If the MEC knocks it down, they'll be making a big mistake. The NMB won't be happy. Expect to be parked for 6-12 months and then end up with little improvements 18 months down the line. Having the pilot group vote it down wouldn't be such a big deal, but the NMB will go ape &^%$ if the MEC votes it down. After all, what the hell have they been doing all this time if not monitoring and guiding the process to a deal that they can approve?
 
ATN_Pilot said:
The -200 rates are pretty good, the -900 rates were already pretty good when arbitrated, and rigs were probably too much to expect when you had such a huge step to take with just getting trip value or better. The dual qual issue was handled in a very creative way that will set the vacancies at a level that has been historically normal for PCL staffing.
Click to expand...

All I gotta say is they better knock it the f8 down! I wanna see a strike and get this company out of business.

The 900 rates ='ing the 200 rates.... no way Philly T.

I guarantee you that reading this thing will solidify a no vote for me. I'm not going to sit 20 days a month of reserve with the possibility of being escalated at their whim to RR for only an hour of pay. We're supposed to have a contract that fixes the things that are wrong, not "enhance" it for the company.

And the union should quit snuffing opinions from the board.

Oh I forgot.... "all hail the union, we must bow down and accept their opinions and decisions with no question".

BOHICA applies to the union too.

:mad: 5 years and this is all we get?

Oh yeah, and no way in hades I will vote for a contract that includes dual qualification. Union, protect us, don't sell us out!
 
By the end of next week all 9e pilots will be able to look through the entire TA'd sections and make THEIR decision based on personal needs and desires. That's how the process should work. There are some things I absolutely hate, yet there are some things I like- I'm sure everyone else will find themselves in the same boat.

My numbers ARE related to all the other carriers as sent from national. I didn't even realize hoe far behid we were until I started putting a comprehensive presentation together.

*edit*
The sentiment I am hearing is that It would be foolish to say we need the industry leading contract, industry average across the board with a few highlights (such as scope and insurance) make a good deal for everyone at 9E as well as the other ALPA carriers to average with.
 
higney85 said:
By the end of next week all 9e pilots will be able to look through the entire TA'd sections and make THEIR decision based on personal needs and desires. That's how the process should work. There are some things I absolutely hate, yet there are some things I like- I'm sure everyone else will find themselves in the same boat.

My numbers ARE related to all the other carriers as sent from national. I didn't even realize hoe far behid we were until I started putting a comprehensive presentation together.

It would be foolish to say we need the industry leading contract, industry average across the board with a few highlights (such as scope and insurance) make a good deal for everyone at 9E as well as the other ALPA carriers to average with.
Click to expand...
Great. So much for raising the bar.

Welp, just my opinion, but it's called feast or famine for a reason. Not famine and famine. It's your union though obviously. Best of luck.
 
Not to go off topic, but is the TA going to help with more block hours? Has there been a reduction in hours for September? I had recevied an email in February that all interviews and classes were suspended until 2010. Does anyone here that works for 9E think that it happen sooner?
 
Seriously, so much for pattern barganing. Do you guys realize how hard it is to KEEP negotiated benefits when new contracts are signed with LESS? If this goes through, that's two contracts (Mesa too) that are less than we have at XJT. We're not going to get anything come 2010 negotiations.

I can't say I expected much in pay, but work rules... Grrr...
 
*edit* The sentiment of many trying to say this is good is..If we get everything "average" with adjustments for inflation ACROSS THE BOARD and have a couple gems that are industry leading the bar is raised- at least in those 2 areas. Potentially our scope and insurance CAN be industry leading, but payrates/schedule/qol/ etc need to be in line.*end edit*



I plan on taking the TA and going section by section with changes- then weighing pros and cons. I have not seen all the language, but I am not happy with MY areas of concern, yet mine are different than yours. The expectations of a deal 5 years in the making coming from a contract that was already rough are quite high. I more than understand the ALPA contract models of building up the industry one contract at a time.

You have to keep in mind I am having to TRY and pass on the overall facts and current sentiment on a forum until the info is all in the hands of every single pilot. From there everyone gets to sound off.
 
FlyChicaga said:
Seriously, so much for pattern barganing. Do you guys realize how hard it is to KEEP negotiated benefits when new contracts are signed with LESS? If this goes through, that's two contracts (Mesa too) that are less than we have at XJT. We're not going to get anything come 2010 negotiations.

I can't say I expected much in pay, but work rules... Grrr...
Click to expand...

The frustration continues.
 
higney85 said:
It would be foolish to say we need the industry leading contract, industry average across the board with a few highlights (such as scope and insurance) make a good deal for everyone at 9E as well as the other ALPA carriers to average with.
Click to expand...

Next time I see you, I may be required to slap you. Or something.

Here at the Beagle, we have annual Industry Average Increases.

If you raise the bar, it helps us raise the bar, AUTOMATICALLY.

Eagle brings the Dutch-door action. Step up, we'll back it up.

... and the company's stuck with it.

So stop giving away my raise, you wanker. :insane:
 
Obvoudly none of you personally know me or saw my proposals for sections. I took the best of each individual contract (cherry picked) and added to create a industry leading proposal. I was told that "you are dreaming". The sentiment of what has become reality is what I posted. The package we have would have worked in may 05 when our deal was amendable as a 3rd gerberation deal, but we are at the point of a 4th generation deal to raise the bar. My vote is already known and it's because have a concessionary deal on the table with the possibility of having to live with it for 5+ years. I am not in a position to demand things- the pilots as a whole are! Call your reps!
 
higney85 said:
Obvoudly none of you personally know me or saw my proposals for sections. I took the best of each individual contract (cherry picked) and added to create a industry leading proposal. I was told that "you are dreaming". The sentiment of what has become reality is what I posted. The package we have would have worked in may 05 when our deal was amendable as a 3rd gerberation deal, but we are at the point of a 4th generation deal to raise the bar. My vote is already known and it's because have a concessionary deal on the table with the possibility of having to live with it for 5+ years. I am not in a position to demand things- the pilots as a whole are! Call your reps!
Click to expand...

Don't take it personally. I'm just grandstanding. ;)
 
Firebird2XC said:
Next time I see you, I may be required to slap you. Or something.

Here at the Beagle, we have annual Industry Average Increases.

If you raise the bar, it helps us raise the bar, AUTOMATICALLY.

Eagle brings the Dutch-door action. Step up, we'll back it up.

... and the company's stuck with it.

So stop giving away my raise, you wanker. :insane:
Click to expand...

Slapping me? Really? Come on! Give me a chance to really have to hit you back so we can talk over beers.....
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top