Fake it till you can make it.
- Thread starter USMCmech
- Start date
USMCmech
Well-Known Member
I will be giving my first hours of dual given next week to someone with english as a second language and has never driven a car.
get used to this ---> :banghead:
My first couple of hours dual was with a gent going for his instrument (did my II as my initial). My problem was that I talked way too soon and wouldn't let him make any mistakes. We did a lot of work in IMC and it wasn't common for us to have to go missed where ever we were practicing because of low weather (thankfully I had great instrument training and a great II who exposed me to many [relatively speaking] of the elements so I was comfortable teaching in these conditions - not meant to come across as a pompous or overconfident attitude or anything). After a few hours, many of the mistakes he was making were not being rectified, so I finally decided to shut my mouth and say whatever needed to be said only when it had to be said.
This one was the most memorable: We were shooting a full procedure VOR approach into an uncontrolled field. The weather was about 1500 and 3 miles. He cut his procedure turn a little short and he had his hands full making sure we didn't blow through the final approach course. This is one of those approaches where the nav-aid is on the field and we designated that when we were established inbound as the time when he would lower the gear and extend a notch of flaps and turn on the runway lights. Yeah, he missed those steps and I told myself I wasn't going to say a thing until I had to...he needed to learn this lesson.
He got behind enough where this was going to be a good lesson learned, but not too far behind. I bit my tongue very hard because I wanted to say something as we continued on the approach with the gear and flaps up. We broke out of the clouds and per our usual agreement, I would tell him when he could look up. About a mile out I told him to look up, he saw the runway and reduced the power to idle and began the final descent to land. At 400 feet I asked him, "All set to land?" He said, "Yep!" I said, "ok, then." At 200 feet I told him, "Tell me what's wrong and show me the way you're going to fix it." He froze like a deer in the headlights. I said, "You have one second to go around before I take it so we don't make a lot of unnecessary noise when we hit the runway..." He still couldn't figure out what I was talking about and at 100 feet I took the throttle and yoke (he immediately let go) and started the missed approach. I asked him to retract the gear and flaps for me. That's when it hit him (and that's when I told him had we been in IMC to minimums, he never would've seen the field either). Lesson learned and it's never happened again.
Just to note, I was never going to let him continue beyond 100 feet or anything unnecessary like that.
I hope this fits in with this thread.
Take care,
Greg
This one was the most memorable: We were shooting a full procedure VOR approach into an uncontrolled field. The weather was about 1500 and 3 miles. He cut his procedure turn a little short and he had his hands full making sure we didn't blow through the final approach course. This is one of those approaches where the nav-aid is on the field and we designated that when we were established inbound as the time when he would lower the gear and extend a notch of flaps and turn on the runway lights. Yeah, he missed those steps and I told myself I wasn't going to say a thing until I had to...he needed to learn this lesson.
He got behind enough where this was going to be a good lesson learned, but not too far behind. I bit my tongue very hard because I wanted to say something as we continued on the approach with the gear and flaps up. We broke out of the clouds and per our usual agreement, I would tell him when he could look up. About a mile out I told him to look up, he saw the runway and reduced the power to idle and began the final descent to land. At 400 feet I asked him, "All set to land?" He said, "Yep!" I said, "ok, then." At 200 feet I told him, "Tell me what's wrong and show me the way you're going to fix it." He froze like a deer in the headlights. I said, "You have one second to go around before I take it so we don't make a lot of unnecessary noise when we hit the runway..." He still couldn't figure out what I was talking about and at 100 feet I took the throttle and yoke (he immediately let go) and started the missed approach. I asked him to retract the gear and flaps for me. That's when it hit him (and that's when I told him had we been in IMC to minimums, he never would've seen the field either). Lesson learned and it's never happened again.
Just to note, I was never going to let him continue beyond 100 feet or anything unnecessary like that.
I hope this fits in with this thread.
Take care,
Greg
USMCmech
Well-Known Member
I think that is one of the hardest things for a new CFI to learn. You HAVE to let them make their own mistakes, while also keeping them (and you) out of danger.
I agree 100%. It was so hard for me to let him make mistakes that, to me, were just blaring. I feel I've gotten a lot better with it even with my students I've had since him. It's just one of those things you have to "feel" - how far is too far; when do I intervene; DO I intervene; etc.?
Thanks,
Greg
Thanks,
Greg
moxiepilot
Well-Known Member
JRH - valid point. I had trouble expressing what I *really* wanted to say, and I agree with you.
It's the long post syndrome - I'm at work and want to post, but I have to make it short & sweet lol.
I think the suceeding? posts actually made the point better of allowing to let students make mistakes with no harm being done.
It's the long post syndrome - I'm at work and want to post, but I have to make it short & sweet lol.
I think the suceeding? posts actually made the point better of allowing to let students make mistakes with no harm being done.
contactground.9
Banned
R
Roger, Roger
Guest
I've had that happen, but it was a no-lights runway. Oh, and we touched about a foot short of the pavement, then bounced up onto it. I totally thought he had it made, but he didn't hold it off quite long enough.
an enormous:yeahthat:
If I could just add something else to the "make mistakes to learn" thing. I actually got yelled at on another forum for letting my student make mistakes. This gentleman claimed that the student was never going to learn if I kept on letting him make mistakes. He continued on to say that that's why the instructor is there, to help him learn without making mistakes and that if the student wanted to make mistakes, he could just go out and fly by himself.
Needless to say I disagreed with this guy big-time. I was surprised to hear that come out of a CFI...
Greg
Needless to say I disagreed with this guy big-time. I was surprised to hear that come out of a CFI...
Greg
richarms
Well-Known Member
One of my earliest CFI experiences was with a student who would give up on short final. When things we not totally lined up (due to gusts, etc.), he would literally throw up his hands in the air and announce "you have it". We (chief pilot and others) could not break him of the habit. He religious convictions taught him it was God's will.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
My first hours of dual given were the day after I completed my MEI (initial).
Came to the school to see what was going on and when I could be put onto the schedule. My Commercial Multi instructor asked me if I wanted to fly today. It was about 8:30. She had a student coming in that was planning a cross country. Six hours worth.
2.5 hours to OAJ, and 3.5 hours back to FFC. Was a pretty easy flight to be honest with you, had a great lunch.
My first "real" hours of dual given were the occasional CMEL students and Instrument Airplane students. I somehow managed to avoid teaching any primary students until about my last 4 months of instruction.
Came to the school to see what was going on and when I could be put onto the schedule. My Commercial Multi instructor asked me if I wanted to fly today. It was about 8:30. She had a student coming in that was planning a cross country. Six hours worth.
2.5 hours to OAJ, and 3.5 hours back to FFC. Was a pretty easy flight to be honest with you, had a great lunch.
My first "real" hours of dual given were the occasional CMEL students and Instrument Airplane students. I somehow managed to avoid teaching any primary students until about my last 4 months of instruction.
Douglas
Old School KSUX
You sir have a gift.
Fly_Unity
Well-Known Member
haha, I thought I was the only one that did that.
mhcasey
Well-Known Member
Edit: Inappropriate comments deleted. Don't want to hijack or make too much work for Doug and co. dealing with complaints.
I'll tell another story to keep things relevant. I just remembered this one from my first ever CFI flight. My school had a large fleet of traumahawks (unfortunate, I know). I had been in all but 2 of them. One drastically underperformed all of the others, and as a group the flight instructors at my school decided to never fly it. I ended up in the other unfamiliar one for my first flight.
I put on my super excited face and tried to act like I had been doing this for a long time. Then I fired up the engine and but about .3 on the Hobbes desperately searching for the avionics master switch. I eventually realized that said traumahawk did not have an avionics master, and I just had to turn the radios on.
I'll tell another story to keep things relevant. I just remembered this one from my first ever CFI flight. My school had a large fleet of traumahawks (unfortunate, I know). I had been in all but 2 of them. One drastically underperformed all of the others, and as a group the flight instructors at my school decided to never fly it. I ended up in the other unfamiliar one for my first flight.
I put on my super excited face and tried to act like I had been doing this for a long time. Then I fired up the engine and but about .3 on the Hobbes desperately searching for the avionics master switch. I eventually realized that said traumahawk did not have an avionics master, and I just had to turn the radios on.
moxiepilot
Well-Known Member
mhcasey - if you keep baiting, you're going to change this good thread into a personal war. please stop it for the benefit of others.
I will be giving my first hours of dual given next week to someone with english as a second language and has never driven a car.
Well, luckily driving a car and flying an airplane aren't transferrable skills!
I more or less had English down, but I soloed before I had ever driven a car so I'm actually one of those guys with more years of flying than driving. Not that big of a deal.
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I'm trying to dig my way thru a number of reports about this thread and given the number of issues on my desk with behind the scenes tech stuff trying t get the forums working correctly after the migration, I've got to say "huh?!" Ya'll keep it friendly in here whatever the heck is going on.
