Can we now safely say the 900 is on property?
- Thread starter Trip7
- Start date
deadstick
Well-Known Member
trip,
I tried to hold my tongue when you stuck your nose under the tent of the Midex issue, but I can't any longer. You need to log more time than posts and move out of mommy's basement. Your myopic view of the industry does service to the SJS horde and kills the hopes of those with the hopes of career progression. I bet you can't wait until you get ETOPS certification for your new toy, too.
Unless there is GROWTH at the majors, then all the regioanal FO's are going to have to wait for the CA's at the majors to leave -- FYI: it'll be 2012 until the next 65 retirement -- until the regional CA's move on. If those regional CA's stay (and some plan to do that; if that is what they want, more power to them! QOL for a senior regional CA can be pretty good compared to a jr FO at a major, except for PSA, apparently) SO that means YOU, Mr. ASA CR9H FO, are gonna get pretty comfy in the right seat.
SCOPE will help get that KoolAid taste outta your mouth.
--OUT
I tried to hold my tongue when you stuck your nose under the tent of the Midex issue, but I can't any longer. You need to log more time than posts and move out of mommy's basement. Your myopic view of the industry does service to the SJS horde and kills the hopes of those with the hopes of career progression. I bet you can't wait until you get ETOPS certification for your new toy, too.
Unless there is GROWTH at the majors, then all the regioanal FO's are going to have to wait for the CA's at the majors to leave -- FYI: it'll be 2012 until the next 65 retirement -- until the regional CA's move on. If those regional CA's stay (and some plan to do that; if that is what they want, more power to them! QOL for a senior regional CA can be pretty good compared to a jr FO at a major, except for PSA, apparently) SO that means YOU, Mr. ASA CR9H FO, are gonna get pretty comfy in the right seat.
SCOPE will help get that KoolAid taste outta your mouth.
--OUT
You read all my posts and that was the best quote you can take to bash?You're right about the 2 for 1 swap. I knew that already. At least the planes don't leave til next year. My thoughts are far from foolish, believe that. I don't care sometimes if I have to go against the JC bandwagon train of thought sometime. Go get some experience? Pleez brotha. They've been telling me that since I was a private pilot.....
Wow, mr. experience. You are so experienced you CAN'T fly as a captain in a jet, you can't fly night freight in a single or light twin, you can't get an ATP. About the only thing you can do is be babysat by a captain in a rj. You got hired with what, 500 hours? So you were babysat by your cfi for 300 hours, and have been babysat for the last 400 hours by the captain, so you only have 200 hours of real flight time. Perhaps you should fly a little more and post a little less.
Couldn't have said it any better!
After years of reading I finally decided to write my 6th post...
Trip7,
I am not sure where to start, but lets start with experience. If I were a 900 hr F/O at a regional flying jets, I would be grateful and humbled that I was even allowed in that position with that amount of time. You got hired because market forces allow and dictate low time pilots operating passenger aircraft at low pay. It wasn't due to your vast experience or amazing flying abilities. Although I am sure you fly well because you did get the job against a lot of competition.
Regarding the regionals getting bigger jets issue. It's been a while since I worked at a large regional that actually flew "regional". I was fortunate to get hired with 3500 hrs and at one of the only regionals that didn't require PFT to get the job during the early to mid 90's. One thing that is obvious to me from the outside looking in is that as the regionals get larger and longer range jets, your chance of getting a mainline job goes down. I don't see mainline carriers expanding, infact they are outsourcing and laying off. I think this is what most are saying here. It's nice that you have a new type on the ramp, but it's a big step in the wrong direction. I wouldn't be flaunting it.
So this leads me to your theory of jumping ship and going overseas to fly that 777. Well, I've been there and am doing just that in the left seat over in Asia and still shy of 40. I can tell you from "experience" that getting a job over here or in the middle east isn't as easy as it sounds and competitive mins are getting very high. You couldn't imagine the amount of time and experience some of the F/O's I fly with have. Everything from ex-mainline captains to military pilots with actual combat time. It is true you will get in a wide body quicker, but there are only a few career carriers over here. Don't hedge your bets that you'll be able to just walk in and sign on the dotted line. There's a good chance you'll be stuck in the US trying to fight for that ever evaporating and hard to get mainline job.
Some day the shiny new jet syndrome will wear off and you will realize that the only thing that does matter is pay and QOL at the airline you work for. I could fly left seat in a 747-400, but I don't because we have common jet pay, my schedule is good, and why put myself through the work. Also, when that shiny new jet syndrome wears off and you are still stuck in the same seat for an extended period of time due to the economy. I can guarantee you will start to feel the frustration and hatred toward management in this industry when you finally realize you are being paid peanuts for a job that should and DID command a proper salary.
I am not trying to be hard here, but humility goes a long way in this industry. I commend you for your desire and hope you take your fortunate position and use it as a chance to learn and listen to what people have to say. Youth and enthusiasm are great things and I suggest using them with a bit more tact. I know I still learn something everytime I strap on a jet and go somewhere.
Cheers
Trip7,
I am not sure where to start, but lets start with experience. If I were a 900 hr F/O at a regional flying jets, I would be grateful and humbled that I was even allowed in that position with that amount of time. You got hired because market forces allow and dictate low time pilots operating passenger aircraft at low pay. It wasn't due to your vast experience or amazing flying abilities. Although I am sure you fly well because you did get the job against a lot of competition.
Regarding the regionals getting bigger jets issue. It's been a while since I worked at a large regional that actually flew "regional". I was fortunate to get hired with 3500 hrs and at one of the only regionals that didn't require PFT to get the job during the early to mid 90's. One thing that is obvious to me from the outside looking in is that as the regionals get larger and longer range jets, your chance of getting a mainline job goes down. I don't see mainline carriers expanding, infact they are outsourcing and laying off. I think this is what most are saying here. It's nice that you have a new type on the ramp, but it's a big step in the wrong direction. I wouldn't be flaunting it.
So this leads me to your theory of jumping ship and going overseas to fly that 777. Well, I've been there and am doing just that in the left seat over in Asia and still shy of 40. I can tell you from "experience" that getting a job over here or in the middle east isn't as easy as it sounds and competitive mins are getting very high. You couldn't imagine the amount of time and experience some of the F/O's I fly with have. Everything from ex-mainline captains to military pilots with actual combat time. It is true you will get in a wide body quicker, but there are only a few career carriers over here. Don't hedge your bets that you'll be able to just walk in and sign on the dotted line. There's a good chance you'll be stuck in the US trying to fight for that ever evaporating and hard to get mainline job.
Some day the shiny new jet syndrome will wear off and you will realize that the only thing that does matter is pay and QOL at the airline you work for. I could fly left seat in a 747-400, but I don't because we have common jet pay, my schedule is good, and why put myself through the work. Also, when that shiny new jet syndrome wears off and you are still stuck in the same seat for an extended period of time due to the economy. I can guarantee you will start to feel the frustration and hatred toward management in this industry when you finally realize you are being paid peanuts for a job that should and DID command a proper salary.
I am not trying to be hard here, but humility goes a long way in this industry. I commend you for your desire and hope you take your fortunate position and use it as a chance to learn and listen to what people have to say. Youth and enthusiasm are great things and I suggest using them with a bit more tact. I know I still learn something everytime I strap on a jet and go somewhere.
Cheers
ZapBrannigan
If it ain’t a Boeing, I’m not going. No choice.
Wow. Now that's some tough love right there. It is unfortunate that he will dismiss you because your brutal honesty should be a wake-up call.
I don't expect to change people's minds here on any particular subject. At the end of the day posting here on any topic is just a hobby...(some might say a huge time-suck). I do feel drawn to threads such as these though because I remember being a 22 year old commuter pilot and being every bit as ambitious, boa####l, arrogant... and thinking that the old timers just didn't "get it".
He will find empathy in time. We all do.
WalterSobchak
Well-Known Member
You read all my posts and that was the best quote you can take to bash?
That line speaks for itself...........
How many people do you think are going to come off the top of your list in the next year in an industry that isn't hiring at the majors and won't be? So you think when the Crj 200's leave in a year your company will have gotten rid of 200 people? I think its a band aid and good for the guys there, but non the less the time to pay the piper will come.
skydog
New Member
I guess I must have missed the memo that says "These planes come here, while those planes go there" as well as the one one that said "These are mainline planes, those are regional planes."
There was a time, when a 28 seat pistion twin was considered a "mainline plane." Likewise, a 90 seat DC9-10 was once considered a "regional" jet.
The primary goal of this business is to make money, therefore the only determinant of where a plane "should" go is "where can we make the most money with it." Maybe if employees would get out of the way of business decisions, airlines might actually make money, which will ultimately provide more job security than any scope clause or collective bargaining agreement.
There was a time, when a 28 seat pistion twin was considered a "mainline plane." Likewise, a 90 seat DC9-10 was once considered a "regional" jet.
The primary goal of this business is to make money, therefore the only determinant of where a plane "should" go is "where can we make the most money with it." Maybe if employees would get out of the way of business decisions, airlines might actually make money, which will ultimately provide more job security than any scope clause or collective bargaining agreement.
deadstick
Well-Known Member
Back in the early 80s Ozark flew "THE 9" from STL to PIA. I think there were 2 R/T per day with an early out to STL, but then it sat until the afternoon. The frequency was lower and they filled the planes.
Now let's look at the alternatives. For big turbo props, the BAe ATP wasn't in production until 1988 and the ATR followed in 89. There were Metros, the mighty Beech, EMB120s, and the Snaab. The technology wasn't there.
Also, what was that "regional" DC-9 CA getting paid?
BY Skydog
Skydog,
Interesting statement. Have you not noticed what's going on all around you in the world.
Those management business decisions are crippling our economy. Which industry shall we use as an example, airline, auto, or financial. The unchecked decisions of upper management have gotten us into a lot of this mess. The constant goal to achieve a higher stock price and bonus schemes to people who are able to steal from there own employees to cut costs are the ultimate in corporate greed. Let alone the golden parachutes, lying, and expectation management we are continually exposed to.
In your world you may think it's the employees fault, but the reason "scope clauses and collective bargaining" are available is to protect those who otherwise would have no protection to the corporate greed we are seeing today.
Yeah, let's let those smart people make those decisions unchecked and see where we all end up! Absolutely crazy!
Now back to the topic,
cheers
BTW: thanks MQAAORD. Sorry if spelled your handle wrong.
flyingmaniac
Well-Known Member
For all the guys who think the RJ 900 should go to the major league, would they also like to get paid roughly $40/hour for the "regional jet second year pay", if the payscale needed to go up for only 6 more seats?
ZapBrannigan
If it ain’t a Boeing, I’m not going. No choice.
When I flew the DC9 for US Airways (108 seats), as a second year copilot I made $92/hr.
zmiller4
Well-Known Member
Come on, you know it's just a little funny!
Of course there's a difference, but the Q is definitely flying some routes for Colgan that were once mainline. You say it's range isn't enough to compete with mainline aircraft, but it's got essentially the same range as a 737-100 and some versions of the F-100, and more range than a DC-9-10 (the one everyone compares to the CRJ900). I don't blame anyone at Colgan for flying them, but I think there's just a touch of hypocrisy in coming down on 900-flying folks for flying "mainline replacements" when at least to a small degree you're doing the same thing.
I even heard that I was flying "replacement aircraft" from AA guys when I was at Eagle flying the freaking ATR! The thing could barely manage 260kts, but at the time it was being used on San Juan-Aruba (mainline had been and would again fly that route).
One other aspect of this whole 900 situation is that although [almost] mainline-sized aircraft are going to a regional (not a good thing), they are basically getting reassigned from Mesa to a company that has some of the best pay and work rules of the regionals. That shift is a good thing, just like it will be great if Colgan can bring their pay and work rules up to an acceptable level and keep their Q400 flying.
mxflyer
Well-Known Member
SFCC/UND
Well-Known Member
Baronman
Well-Known Member
Regarding the Q I think people want it both ways...Yes we can do everything a jet can do, we have the payload, speed, range, comfort, first class...you name it we can do it. Noooo we're not replacing anything, we're just a little turboprop operator, nothing to worry about with us. The truth lies between the two.
TFaudree_ERAU
Mashin' dem buttons
You cut the nose off. Shame on you
Cptnchia
Dissatisfied Customer
Seggy
Well-Known Member
skydog
New Member
Yes, I am well aware of what is going on in the economy and global markets right now. But living in a free country and participating in a free market economy means that you have the freedom to make the wrong decisions for your business, and the freedom to fail in your business. That's basically what has happened. People have made poor business decisions, and the effects of that have rippled through the economy. My question to you is this: Who do propose should "check" (to use your word) the business decisions of entrepeneurs and business owners?