Can we now safely say the 900 is on property?

Although in surreal's defense, they didn't have -900s when he was hired. Pinnacle only had -200s when I was hired here, and I won't bid the -900 until they pay what it SHOULD be paid (which would be pretty much a mainline rate), but I'm sure I'd get lumped in with everyone else.

What should we do? Quit in protest?
 
I'm pretty sure you both would have applied at the company even if they would have had the 900 on property at the time. Just a hunch.

No?
 
I can only speak for myself, but I didn't apply to who I did because of any specific airframes they had or planned on having. As if any single issues is why anyone applies to a company. :whatever:

Screaming_Emu said:
By one of the subcontracted pilots who willingly went to work at the same company he is talking about...hmmm
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As usual, you fail to realize I'm not talking about our COMPANY, I'm talking about one of our fellow pilots who is all giddy about receiving a stretch RJ to fly.

This isn't about our COMPANY. Nothing any of us as line pilots do will change anything our company does when it comes to scope. Scope is connected at the hip to our mainline partner, not to us.

What we can do is foster a sense of professional responsibility within our pilot group as opposed to kicking those who are already down on the ground (or telling those who are married they knew what they were getting into ... you're damn right we knew, and no one is bitching about that, we're bitching about some kid rejoicing about a stretch RJ when the net lose of airframes is till occurring).

I'm sorry, but there is nothing to be happy about when we receive 10 new airplanes when we are required to lose 20 other airplanes from flying opportunities maintained by our lone mainline partner. A net lose of 10 is still a net lose of 10 no matter how overly excited one is about having a stretch RJ to fly.

You make it sound as if I'm the only one who holds such an opinion, take a look around. . .I'm not necessarily the minority voice of reason on this one.
 
skydog said:
I know it. But you'd think intelligent, educated poeple would recognize that pay increases and better work rules come from profits, not from scope clauses and collective bargaining agreements.
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The intelligent, educated people I know recognize that they don't have any control over management decisions and, to be frank, mismanagement. Take what you can get, give nothing back, and let the "managers" do their job.
 
AMH said:
I'm pretty sure you both would have applied at the company even if they would have had the 900 on property at the time. Just a hunch.

No?
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I didn't.

I went where I did for a lot of reasons, but a few of those reasons were 50 seat flying, an industry leading contract and good management/labor relations.
 
You forgot the 12 ATR's, so I would consider it a net loss of 22 airplanes. You could also throw in the reduction in block hours.
 
jtrain609 said:
I didn't.

I went where I did for a lot of reasons, but a few of those reasons were 50 seat flying, an industry leading contract and good management/labor relations.
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I'm not quite sure what you're getting at.

But, sure, those are good reasons to be interested in working for a particular company.
 
AMH said:
I'm not quite sure what you're getting at.

But, sure, those are good reasons to be interested in working for a particular company.
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You said.

I'm pretty sure you both would have applied at the company even if they would have had the 900 on property at the time. Just a hunch.

No?
Click to expand...

And I disagreed, I wouldn't apply to companies with -900's on property.
 
AMH said:
This is interesting. So you avoided companies that had 900's and chose Expressjet because they did not?
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It was a factor. Most of the factors were:

-LAX and ONT bases just over an hour commute from SLC, where I live. When I got hired, these were junior bases.

-Delta flying and Delta benefits while living in a Delta hub.

-Industry leading contract.

-Quick upgrade at the time, but I figured it was bound to slow down. I figured I'd have 4-5 years of being in the right seat, but that time would be spent holding a line out of LAX and living a fairly easy life (not exactly how things turned out).

-50 seat flying, not giant "RJ's."

-A bunch of my buddies were there and happy with the place.

-Great labor/management relations.

-A strong union.
 
Sounds like you had your mind clearly made. Now had a handful of E170's been on the lot, you still would have wanted the job correct? I mean that's an aircraft that most of us would agree should be flown by mainline.

My point is, we can not decide the scope and most of the time the airframe we are assigned. It's completely out of our control and will remain that way.
 
AMH said:
Sounds like you had your mind clearly made. Now had a handful of E170's been on the lot, you still would have wanted the job correct? I mean that's an aircraft that most of us would agree should be flown by mainline.
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Nope. My goal in life is to sell out as little as possible.

My point is, we can not decide the scope and most of the time the airframe we are assigned. It's completely out of our control and will remain that way.
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My point is that I believe you are wrong, and that we can refuse to work at a place where we believe that our values will be compromised. Our downfall is the defeatist attitude you hold. There are enough respectable places to work that don't require the selling of your ideals to gain employment, and I have no problems with taking my furlough and running if I believe that my further involvement in this career will simply result in its continued demise, taking my career prospects with it.

Flying for a living is not a dream for me, it's a job. I can continue to fly on my own all I want with the certificates I have, and I intend to do so. But to compromise my integrity for a few more dollars an hour is something I'm unwilling to do. You might be willing to, and if you are, then enjoy.
 
jtrain609 said:
Nope. My goal in life is to sell out as little as possible.



My point is that I believe you are wrong, and that we can refuse to work at a place where we believe that our values will be compromised. Our downfall is the defeatist attitude you hold. There are enough respectable places to work that don't require the selling of your ideals to gain employment, and I have no problems with taking my furlough and running if I believe that my further involvement in this career will simply result in its continued demise, taking my career prospects with it.

Flying for a living is not a dream for me, it's a job. I can continue to fly on my own all I want with the certificates I have, and I intend to do so. But to compromise my integrity for a few more dollars an hour is something I'm unwilling to do. You might be willing to, and if you are, then enjoy.
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Word Holmes. Bossman. Worddddddd.

Anyone who flies an E-170 is clearly a sell out. You are what everyone should strive to be in this industry. Jtrain for President!!! Soon, you will be a lawyer (bad chills) and you can save us all!

This gets better day by day. I love it.
 
jtrain609 said:
Nope. My goal in life is to sell out as little as possible.

My point is that I believe you are wrong, and that we can refuse to work at a place where we believe that our values will be compromised. Our downfall is the defeatist attitude you hold. There are enough respectable places to work that don't require the selling of your ideals to gain employment, and I have no problems with taking my furlough and running if I believe that my further involvement in this career will simply result in its continued demise, taking my career prospects with it.

Flying for a living is not a dream for me, it's a job. I can continue to fly on my own all I want with the certificates I have, and I intend to do so. But to compromise my integrity for a few more dollars an hour is something I'm unwilling to do. You might be willing to, and if you are, then enjoy.
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Oh lord.

Well it's a good thing that Expressjet did not acquire any 76 seaters during your tenure. That would have been a tough decision to quit or "sell out".

Fair enough, I guess.

It's about being successful, not a defeatist attitude. You're right. It is a job and not a dream. And I intend to get as much out of the job as possible in order to provide for my family. And that, I will enjoy. Thanks.

Though, I guess one last question I have is how you convinced yourself that flying for a regional airline, which all pay notoriously and outrageously low wages for the task at hand, was somehow not selling out in the first place?

Don't tell me this is just a conveniently timed case of new found integrity.
 
AMH said:
Oh lord.

Well it's a good thing that Expressjet did not acquire any 76 seaters during your tenure. That would have been a tough decision to quit or "sell out".

Fair enough, I guess.

It's about being successful, not a defeatist attitude. You're right. It is a job and not a dream. And I intend to get as much out of the job as possible in order to provide for my family. And that, I will enjoy. Thanks.

Though, I guess one last question I have is how you convinced yourself that flying for a regional airline, which all pay notoriously and outrageously low wages for the task at hand, was somehow not selling out in the first place?

Don't tell me this is just a conveniently timed case of new found integrity.
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Eh, it doesn't matter what I think at this point, you already think I'm a retard and I'm not really inclined to try to argue with you because I'm fairly convinced you're not interested in a real discussion at this point.

Later.
 
jtrain609 said:
Eh, it doesn't matter what I think at this point, you already think I'm a retard and I'm not really inclined to try to argue with you because I'm fairly convinced you're not interested in a real discussion at this point.

Later.
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I'm sorry you feel that way, J. I'll admit that I was a little skeptical of your post above. But I do wish you the best in what you do.
 
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