Can we now safely say the 900 is on property?

Trip7 said:
I guarantee you in 10-12 years I would say the same exact things I said today.
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Don't speak for someone you don't know. :)

10-12 years brings a person a lot of experiences, growth & maturity. We are never the same person that we were 10-12 years ago.

12 years ago I was 21 years old. Do I still have the same opinions & thoughts about everything? Absolutely not.

12 years from now, when I'm 45, will I still be the same person I am now? I hope not. I hope that I'll have grown, matured & learned even more.

12 years ago I thought that I would NEVER go to AA. Why go to a major? This is great! I've got a sweet job, this is fun! In 2001 I went to AA. And it was great. One of the best things I've ever done. Had I not expanded my horizons & allowed myself to change my views on things I would never have done that.
 
Trip7 said:
I guarantee you in 10-12 years I would say the same exact things I said today.
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This statement proves just how ignorant your line of thinking is. It's amazing to see how many teens/ early-twenty somethings are on JC educating the world w/ their vast knowledge.......then, eventually they realize perhaps they should've been learning instead of teaching. But, congrats to ASA for their recent acquisition. Enjoy flying them. :rolleyes: However, I stand by my position...and it would seem most of the people who've posted in the thread would agree.



Never say never in the aviation industry! AND, never say you guarantee anything....unless you're guaranteeing CHANGE. ;)
 
Cruise said:
This statement proves just how ignorant your line of thinking is. It's amazing to see how many teens/ early-twenty somethings are on JC educating the world w/ their vast knowledge.......then, eventually they realize perhaps they should've been learning instead of teaching. But, congrats to ASA for their recent acquisition. Enjoy flying them. :rolleyes: However, I stand by my position...and it would seem most of the people who've posted in the thread would agree.



Never say never in the aviation industry! AND, never say you guarantee anything....unless you're guaranteeing CHANGE. ;)
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Its amazing how points get lost in threads. How can my line of thinking be ignorant when the very thoughts I posted were in agreement yours. I said that 900s at the regionals are not a great thing for the career. No doubt about that. In fact, your Q400s are not a good thing for career progression. Neither are your Saabs. They all should be flown by the Mainline. Then I said I would say the same thing 10-12 years from now.

What you guys are preaching is never to be enthusiastic and happy about anything. I'm sorry but I'm not joining the ole doom and gloom look at the glass half empty approach about everything JC bandwagon. I'm preaching the exact opposite...

Why do we need to start this endless bashing every time a regional acquires new flying. Do a search. Every time new flying has been announced this same argument starts. We might as well start bashing people in Member Announcements when they announce they've been hired by a regional because they are "bringing down the industry"

Its very hypocritical when the majority of the bashers are Colgan pilots flying 74 seat turboprops at near jet speed for less than 50 seat pay at any regional who themselves like to start threads as soon as a rumor is whispered over there.

And I stand by my position that there should be no outsourcing. Every legacy affiliated flight should be flown under a single seniority list. But since there is, if your regional gets additional flying,planes that another competitor would gladly have flown for less, you have every right to celebrate...and I would say that 12 years from now.....
 
Trip7 said:
What you guys are preaching is never to be enthusiastic and happy about anything. I'm sorry but I'm not joining the ole doom and gloom look at the glass half empty approach about everything JC bandwagon. I'm preaching the exact opposite...
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Missing the point. I say don't be overly enthusiastic. Your posts have come across as "WOO HOO! NEW 900S! ASA IS THE BEST!" while there are guys getting booted to the streets. Ask one of those (surreal doesn't count, he's already voiced his opinion) guys how excited THEY are about the 900s at ASA. Ask the guys at Mesaba that thought they had a class date, then got the rug ripped out from underneath them. Ask the guys at Mesa that were originally flying that airplane, then saw it go to Pinnacle. I'm betting none of those guys are gonna be thrilled. Ya know what? I'm not either. For every -900, Q400 or E175 delivered, it's one less DC-9 or A320 job up the ladder. Sorry, I find it hard to get excited about seeing my career expectations flushed down the toilet. I DHed on a Compass 175 yesterday. It was both comfortable and depressing. The only thing I could think of while I sat in that seat was "This SHOULD be a mainline airplane" but the bean counters in management know it's cheaper to contract it out. So, they wheel and deal with the mainline pilots to scope it out.

Never say never on mainline taking the scope back. Delta's got a payscale for smaller airplanes, and with the economy the way it is, look for Delta pilots to protect their own from furloughs. If that means re-negotiating the scope clause to where mainline guys fly 76+ airplanes, they'll do it.

Why do we need to start this endless bashing every time a regional acquires new flying. Do a search. Every time new flying has been announced this same argument starts. We might as well start bashing people in Member Announcements when they announce they've been hired by a regional because they are "bringing down the industry"
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Some of that is true. But you have to look at the perspective. It's kinda hard to be happy about an airplane coming on property when you know guys that are still losing their jobs. It's like me going up to one of the downgraded CAs and saying "Well....at least you've still got a job." Nevermind the fact the house he bought three months ago when everything was okay is being foreclosed on b/c he can't afford the payments on FO pay. If there were a net gain of jobs, I'd say this might be cause for celebration, but when you're saying "Well, we're only furloughing 80 instead of 160 b/c we're getting these planes" I wouldn't exactly be busting out the champagne.

As for moving on and flying a 777 or something overseas.....well, you and about 100,000 other guys are gonna be thinking the same thing....myself included. Alchemy said it best in another thread. Everyone and their pet hamster is gonna have 4K with 1K TPIC. When the majors start hiring again, I don't think the competitive times are gonna be very low. You'll have guys that have been CAs at the regionals for 3-4 years looking to move on. I'm thinking someone with zero PIC time but a ton of TSIC time is gonna have to settle for upgrading at his or her current regional rather than moving up to flying the big iron.

Its very hypocritical when the majority of the bashers are Colgan pilots flying 74 seat turboprops at near jet speed for less than 50 seat pay at any regional who themselves like to start threads as soon as a rumor is whispered over there.
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The difference b/w those guys and you is they're actively fighting to make it better rather than saying "Come on guys! Only the married people with kids are complaining. It's not THAT bad."

And I stand by my position that there should be no outsourcing. Every legacy affiliated flight should be flown under a single seniority list. But since there is, if your regional gets additional flying,planes that another competitor would gladly have flown for less, you have every right to celebrate...and I would say that 12 years from now.....
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I'm never gonna say that what I say today I will agree with 12 years from now. Hell, I won't even say 5 years from now. A lot can happen in that amount of time. 12 years ago, I was happily pushing buttons at Space Mountain hoping for that supervisor job. Blissful ignorance is probably the best thing I could call it.
 
Trip7 said:
Its amazing how points get lost in threads. How can my line of thinking be ignorant when the very thoughts I posted were in agreement yours. I said that 900s at the regionals are not a great thing for the career. No doubt about that. In fact, your Q400s are not a good thing for career progression. Neither are your Saabs. They all should be flown by the Mainline. Then I said I would say the same thing 10-12 years from now.

What you guys are preaching is never to be enthusiastic and happy about anything. I'm sorry but I'm not joining the ole doom and gloom look at the glass half empty approach about everything JC bandwagon. I'm preaching the exact opposite...

Why do we need to start this endless bashing every time a regional acquires new flying. Do a search. Every time new flying has been announced this same argument starts. We might as well start bashing people in Member Announcements when they announce they've been hired by a regional because they are "bringing down the industry"

Its very hypocritical when the majority of the bashers are Colgan pilots flying 74 seat turboprops at near jet speed for less than 50 seat pay at any regional who themselves like to start threads as soon as a rumor is whispered over there.

And I stand by my position that there should be no outsourcing. Every legacy affiliated flight should be flown under a single seniority list. But since there is, if your regional gets additional flying,planes that another competitor would gladly have flown for less, you have every right to celebrate...and I would say that 12 years from now.....
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Fine, perhaps my 'ignorant' comment was a bit harsh. So, for that I apologize. However, if you think it's a bad thing to be flying these aircraft, why are you on here cheering like a little school boy saying how wonderful it is to have them on property? It appears from your delivery that you're excited about seeing larger aircraft moved downhill. Someone said something of the 'slippery slope' earlier......this is spot on. Again, no one here said anything about you refusing to fly them. Does it suck that airline mgmt's continue to move larger aircraft to the poorly paid regional level? Yes. Unfortunately, there isn't much that can be done about it outside of contract negotiating at the mainline partners. This isn't a doom and gloom thread, not even close. What it is, is a thread that illustrates the downward trend in our industry.

Next, we've covered the Q already. This is a REGIONAL aircraft....period. Despite it's ability to move 70+ people it doesn't have the range to compete at the mainline level, whereas your shiny new 900 does. Does the Q have near jet performance? YES. Can it fly PHL - DFW....not a chance. Also, I've covered our pay rates. The current rates we're using were imposed upon us. WE HAD NO SAY IN THE MATTER. However, change is coming. As I'm sure you're aware, we've recently voted in ALPA and payrates for the Q are going to be high on the negotiating list. Now, if the mainline carriers started taking back 70 seat flying, I'd be happy to see the Q leave Colgan. Good riddance, megawhacker! Enjoy the big leagues.

Sorry, this isn't Colgan guys bashing you. And, I don't start rumor-mill threads. It's a combination of people from all aspects of the industry advising you that your message delivery may not be appropriate. Of course, we're all excited to hear about growth of the airlines.....unfortunately, this growth isn't good news for long-term career prospects unless you have no aspiration of ever flying an aircraft for the company who's name is on the side. You can poo poo it all you want, but those are the facts. These aircraft shift mainline flying to poorly paid regionals. Fortunately, ALPA is working on addressing the 'Fee for Departure' issues, but that is for a different thread.


Congrats on your growth.
 
Cruise said:
Fortunately, ALPA is working on addressing the 'Fee for Departure' issues, but that is for a different thread.
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And clearly this is where threads these days need to be going. We've all heard that the 900/170/175 doesn't belong at the regionals spiel plenty enough:D
 
Cruise said:
However, if you think it's a bad thing to be flying these aircraft, why are you on here cheering like a little school boy saying how wonderful it is to have them on property? It appears from your delivery that you're excited about seeing larger aircraft moved downhill....
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Meh, he's not the only one who gets excited about larger airplanes coming on property...

http://forums.jetcareers.com/general-topics/39264-colgan-q400.html

And Trip7 didn't even track down a fireworks graphic! :D

I don't disagree with any of your points about regionals flying larger aircraft, but I think people are being a little harsh on Trip7.
 
zmiller4 said:
Meh, he's not the only one who gets excited about larger airplanes coming on property...

http://forums.jetcareers.com/general-topics/39264-colgan-q400.html

And Trip7 didn't even track down a fireworks graphic! :D

I don't disagree with any of your points about regionals flying larger aircraft, but I think people are being a little harsh on Trip7.
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Wow, I don't know how I missed that one.:D Fire works and all!

Like I said before, I agree with all his points on the impact of large aircraft. But in a time when jobs are scarce and the arrival of these airplanes mean around 80 jobs saved, I see nothing wrong with being excited and celebrating.
 
My humble opinion on the CRJ900

The CRJ200 is a very unpopular aircraft right now due to their fuel consumptions (don't know much on the ERJ-145s though). Also the CRJ200s are known to "break" more often leaving them grounded for repairs. THey are designed like bizjets not airliners. A bizjet usually flies 5 to six times a week. Where a CRJ flies 7 to 8 times a day.

The CRJ700/900 however are designed like airliners so they are less prown to break. Having said that Congrats to ASA on taking the CRJ900 :). I used to due A-checks when they were at Freedom
 
Trip7 said:
Like I said before, I agree with all his points on the impact of large aircraft. But in a time when jobs are scarce and the arrival of these airplanes mean around 80 jobs saved, I see nothing wrong with being excited and celebrating.
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Agreed...I'd be just as excited if we were getting 10 cessna 152s to fly one passenger at a time from ATL to Macon.

These planes should be flown by mainline, but ASA pilots saying "damn, I wish I didn't have to fly this plane" isn't going to get them there. Its going to take mainline pilots getting some cahones the next time they're negotiating a contract.

My major issue is with the hypocrisy of those who cry "those planes steal mainline jobs!" But work for the very company (or ones similar).
 
Trip7 said:
Only time will tell. But it is a decent sign that Delta awarded these planes to a regional with a relatively senior pilot group and one of the best pilot contracts if not the best pilot contract in the industry.
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I've read several of your posts now and am left shaking my head. As a fellow ASA pilot, if you cannot figure out why the 900's were awarded to us, then you are an idiot. They were awarded because we took the 2 for 1 swap. If anyone (save for mesa) had done that, then guess what..........They'd have new 900's too.

You know how that saying goes.......better to be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt......you seem to be doing an excellent job of the latter. Please gain some experience then report back.
 
aevfo said:
I've read several of your posts now and am left shaking my head. As a fellow ASA pilot, if you cannot figure out why the 900's were awarded to us, then you are an idiot. They were awarded because we took the 2 for 1 swap. If anyone (save for mesa) had done that, then guess what..........They'd have new 900's too.

You know how that saying goes.......better to be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt......you seem to be doing an excellent job of the latter. Please gain some experience then report back.
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You read all my posts and that was the best quote you can take to bash?:D You're right about the 2 for 1 swap. I knew that already. At least the planes don't leave til next year. My thoughts are far from foolish, believe that. I don't care sometimes if I have to go against the JC bandwagon train of thought sometime. Go get some experience? Pleez brotha. They've been telling me that since I was a private pilot.....
 
Fine.....I've been pwnd. That's some fine investigative interneting. You guys are all right. :whatever:

WOO HOO........900's on property! :nana2::nana2::nana2::nana2:




Unfortunately, the difference between the Q and the 900 have been clearly hashed out time and time again.


Congrats on your new flying.....I'm happy for you! Welcome to your new career.
 
Trip7 said:
Its sad when a regional gets awarded airplanes there is more a feeling of victory and relief than excitement. But that is the world we live in and the game we play. Hopefully ALPA is working on a solution but until then when my company gets awarded new aircraft best believe I'm going to celebrate.
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Two things here...

There is a difference between people who look out for themselves (human nature) and people who do the right thing. The people who lookout for themselves are called scabs.

The other thing that gets me...

It is NOT...I repeat...IS NOT ALPA's job to get RJs back on mainline property. It is all of our jobs, collectively to make our profession better.

All that ALPA does is give us the tools to make it better. You should certainly consider running for ALPA elected office like Cruise, Seggy and myself. I hope one day you will understand and see that not only is 76 seat airplanes not good, but if it doesn't end at 76...where will it end?

Believe it or not we ARE the next generation of mainline pilots. We will need to secure this scope NOT us, but those behind us. It's our duty.
 
Trip7 said:
Wow, I don't know how I missed that one.:D Fire works and all!

Like I said before, I agree with all his points on the impact of large aircraft. But in a time when jobs are scarce and the arrival of these airplanes mean around 80 jobs saved, I see nothing wrong with being excited and celebrating.
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Honest question Marcus. I have no dog in this fight as I'll probably only be riding in a commercial plane as a passenger.

But, if you were one of the 80, much like that of Surreal, would you still have the same level of excitement, and zeal that you currently do for the 900?

Again, honest question.
 
Trip7 said:
Go get some experience? Pleez brotha. They've been telling me that since I was a private pilot.....
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Believe it or not, you are not experienced. Sure you have more experience than you did two years ago, but you have a very long way to go. It is not so much what you say that turns people off, but how you say it and the way you come across. I had the same problem when I first came here, eventually I learned to just sit back and listen to the truly expereinced guys. Every so often I'll chime in on something I know about. Don't get me wrong Marcus, I like you and am happy to see your enthusiasm and ambition, aviation needs more of that, but sometimes your ego needs a check.

Alex.
 
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