Pulled over while in uniform?

Save the vacation.. take a traffic school. I am not sure how it goes in other states, but up here in NH, the traffic school elimitates the points (1 time) and the premium decrease often zero's out the premium increase from the ticket.

DO it on your own time... then in a few years when the ticket falls off, you still have the traffic school on your record for a decrease in premium. (some company's limit it to withen a year though)
 
It's a power issue. The psychological testing is there to get people like them out of the process as early as possible. Unfortunately, many do slide right on by.


I think the city saves money and skips this test altogether. I haven't encountered a SINGLE city police officer here that doesn't have some sort of power trip or attitude. Wife works at Starbucks and had one get all huffy when they made him pay for his coffee.
 
I think the city saves money and skips this test altogether. I haven't encountered a SINGLE city police officer here that doesn't have some sort of power trip or attitude. Wife works at Starbucks and had one get all huffy when they made him pay for his coffee.

If they get rude about not getting free stuff, call HQ or your city councilman, make sure you get his badge number.
 
Don't sign the ticket and you're going to jail. It is as simple as that. I don't have the statute you are looking for.

And, that is precisely my point. This matter has never been pushed to the Supreme Court and I hope I never have to be the first to make that happen. But, the reason you can't provide such a statute, is simply because such a statue does not exist and never has. Why? Because, failure to sign a Class-A/B Misdemeanor civil citation has never and will never be a criminal act, nor will any court ever be able to recognize it as having potential criminal intent.

Surely, you might "physically" take someone into custody, but if that person has the resources, he/she can make the remainder of your days on the force a living nightmare and ultimately you'll end up like Van Ader, Lang and Furman - just to name a few.

In most jurisdictions, the officer has another choice. The officer can simply (in a professional manner) insert the unsigned citation into the vehicle itself and then leave the matter to the courts. Ultimately, if the courts decides, it (the court) will issue a Warrant for arrest. The matter of arresting someone simply because they refuse to sign a Misdemeanor issuance - again - has never been pushed to the USSC. That's why there is still so much debate on this subject and why law enforcement jurisdictions around the country are still making this mistake. When someone finally decides to push this matter to the USSC, a new precedent will be finally established. Until then, police officers will always think they are acting within their authority and ignorant citizens will always believe the same false premise. I (personally) have more than enough capital resources to test it, I just don't have the time to test it.


I agree with you 110% in regards to attitude in law enforcement. As everyone knows there are plenty of people in law enforcement that should not be. They are the ones who make the news and regardless of how many good things an officer can do, the general public will remember the bad ones.

I will always support good cops - we desperately need them. So much so, that I once considered Federal Law Enformcement as a career, until my Wife found out what I was doing - she simply won't allow it. She's always been too afraid and I don't blame her. So, I'm not anti-cop - nor am I anti-authority.

But, out here where I live, we just had BART police officer shoot an unarmed, non-resistant, compliant citizen, in the back with his revolver at point-blank range. The next day, he "retired" and drove to rural Nevada in an attempt to hide. He was later picked-up by Nevada authorities and brought back to the Bay Area, where he is now being charged with murder.

Bad cops need to be weeded out. Attitude, is one of the first detectable signs, but it can be covered for quite sometime by the bad cop trying to hide his/her true nature. Thus, IMO - there needs to be an ongoing "weeding" and "sifting" process evern after one is swarn in, given a badge and a weapon. There are far more good than bad cops, but all it takes is a band of rebels to cause rioting in the streets - and nobody wants that - or needs that.

ZapBrannigan:

There are two reason why you take time off to deal with this matter:

1) You value principle over time spent and integrity over circumstance.

2) The fine (amount) is so aggregious as to cause you such financial hardship, that not taking the time-off to deal with the matter is actually increases your financial hardship.

Which - is only something that you can decide for yourself. Only you know your salary, bosses probable reaction and current personal houshold budget requirements. Run the numbers, estimate your bosses reply and know whether or not something in your personal budget will get left behind temporarily as you recovery financial from the lost pay.

If you actually have a case, it could be worth the effort. If you case is weak, you could be wasting your time and your money.
 
[YT]aMAEVgRWq6s[/YT]

If he had the resources to push this to the USSC, he could make what this officer did to him, a criminal act itself.
 
But, the reason you can't provide such a statute, is simply because such a statue does not exist and never has. Why? Because, failure to sign a Class-A/B Misdemeanor civil citation has never and will never be a criminal act, nor will any court ever be able to recognize it as having potential criminal intent.

Ummm... he posted another reply above giving you the statute.

Florida Arrestable Offenses

318.14......REFUSE TO ACCEPT SIGN CITATION
OR POST BOND

Also, it all depends on state law... I know from experience that no signature is required in MI or MA.
 
Approach Control,

Right out of my Florida Criminal and Traffic Law Manual

318.14 Noncriminal traffic infractions; exception; procedures.--

(2) Except as provided in s. 316.1001(2), any person cited for an infraction under this section must sign and accept a citation indicating a promise to appear. The officer may indicate on the traffic citation the time and location of the scheduled hearing and must indicate the applicable civil penalty established in s. 318.18.

(3) Any person who willfully refuses to accept and sign a summons is guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree.

Ok, thanks.

Now, Here's the actual unedited Florida State Statute and the URL:

[SIZE=-1]318.14 Noncriminal traffic infractions; exception; procedures.--[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]
[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1](1) Except as provided in ss. 318.17 and 320.07(3)(c), any person cited for a violation of chapter 316, s. 320.0605, s. 320.07(3)(a) or (b), s. 322.065, s. 322.15(1), s. 322.16(2) or (3), s. 322.161(5), s. 322.19, or s. 1006.66(3) is charged with a noncriminal infraction and must be cited for such an infraction and cited to appear before an official. If another person dies as a result of the noncriminal infraction, the person cited may be required to perform 120 community service hours under s. 316.027(4), in addition to any other penalties.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]
[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1](2) Except as provided in s. 316.1001(2), any person cited for an infraction under this section must sign and accept a citation indicating a promise to appear. The officer may indicate on the traffic citation the time and location of the scheduled hearing and must indicate the applicable civil penalty established in s. 318.18.[/SIZE]


[SIZE=-1](3) Any person who willfully refuses to accept and sign a summons is guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]
[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1](4) Except as provided in subsection (12), any person charged with a noncriminal infraction under this section who does not elect to appear shall pay the civil penalty and delinquent fee, if applicable, either by mail or in person, within 30 days after the date of issuance of the citation. If the person cited follows the above procedure, he or she shall be deemed to have admitted the infraction and to have waived his or her right to a hearing on the issue of commission of the infraction. Such admission shall not be used as evidence in any other proceedings. Any person who is cited for a violation of s. 320.0605 or s. 322.15(1), or subject to a penalty under s. 320.07(3)(a) or (b) or s. 322.065, and who makes an election under this subsection shall submit proof of compliance with the applicable section to the clerk of the court. For the purposes of this subsection, proof of compliance consists of a valid driver's license or a valid registration certificate."[/SIZE]
----------------



The first and most important question (regarding State Statutes), is does the Statute in anyway attempt to make null and void, the Constitution of the United States of America, by stripping away the rights of the Citizen.


Florida, has deemed the matter to be a "second degree misdemeanor" in paragraph 3. The problem, is that at no time does the Florida State legislature (herein) go on to grant the authority to law enforcement to effect an arrest. It never states that authority. Furthermore, it goes on to contradict itself in paragraph 4, where it concludes by explicit implication that the one having been found 'guilty' of a second degree misdemeanor, can "...elect not to appear..." This is a huge problem and a major contradiction in the State Statute itself. This would have to be a matter raised above the State of Florida, to resolve. The only place to do that would be in the USSC.


How can the Statue claim 'guilt' and at the very same time allow for an 'election' to appear or not to appear? That is a clear contradiction and the reason why I say that no officer has the right/authority to effect a legal arrest (the hindering of Civil Liberties) merely upon the 'charge' of not signing a Misdemeanor Citation. There is no logical or rational nexus between 'guilt' and 'election' - none.


That would be my argument - that would be my case, in a nutshell. That there can be no declaration by the State of 'guilt' merely based upon a persons refusal to act in contradiction to his/her own Civil Rights.


That is the crux of the matter and again, this has never been tested at the USSC level. Thus, the only conclusion that can be made here, is that the Florida State Statute (in this regard) is not supported by the Constitution of the United States of America. And, whenever any State Law(s) contradicts the Constitution, it is deemed to be unconstitutional.


Point of fact: There are many State and Local laws that are sitting on the books right now across the country that are unconstitutional, but that have never had their day in USSC. The only way to get to the heart of these things, is to flush them out into the light of day inside the U.S. Supreme Court. There, the inconsistent logic can be exposed for what it is - inconsistent.


Bottom line: You can't ask an American Citizen to willingly go along with having their Civil Rights violated, merely because they refuse to engage in their own prosecution (as it were). That's the essence of the matter, here.
 
HOLY CRAP! Same thing happened about ten minutes ago to me! He told me he was a commercially rated pilot and was going to get into flying full time when he left the police force!
I trust that you took the time to explain to him the cut in pay he is going to be taking, plus the loss of a "stable" career for a chance to be furloughed at any time.
 
If he had the resources to push this to the USSC, he could make what this officer did to him, a criminal act itself.

Ugh. Pathetic. Completely utterly pathetic display of "authority". I've had a cop (Fullerton PD) accuse me of doing drugs - I only wish I'd had the balls to disobey his order "not to be seen by him driving" because that toolbag would have gotten a major lawsuit.
 
[yt]aMAEVgRWq6s[/yt]

If he had the resources to push this to the USSC, he could make what this officer did to him, a criminal act itself.

Ok so an officer tased someone for not signing a ticket? What's your point?

It's not the first and wont be the last. I can youtube videos all day long of officers doing things they shouldn't be doing.
 
Well, it wasn't for not signing a ticket but for not obeying him when telling him to stop, etc.

This has got to be hard for an officer. You are telling a person to do something and they won't comply. You have to control the situation in some manner. All the guy had to do was do what he was told. There is a lot of stress for the officer in this situation.

Not necessarily condoning it, but he should have just done what he was told.
 
Out of curiosity I looked up the exception, 316.1001(2), which is in reference to a citation mailed from an automated toll system.

Are you asking me what the exception means? I'm sorry, I don't know understand you.

If they get rude about not getting free stuff, call HQ or your city councilman, make sure you get his badge number.

:yeahthat: Get as much information as you can and call. I know we sure as hell can't take anything for free. We can be short a penny at the store and have one of those take a penny leave a penny stands right in front of us and not be able to use it. Honestly, it puts me in an uncomfortable situation if someone says it's free. I don't want to feel they are entitled to something from me in the future.
 
Ok so an officer tased someone for not signing a ticket? What's your point?

It's not the first and wont be the last. I can youtube videos all day long of officers doing things they shouldn't be doing.

I think his point is.... never trust a man or woman with a gun and a badge, no matter how nice they are.
 
Ok so an officer tased someone for not signing a ticket? What's your point?

It's not the first and wont be the last. I can youtube videos all day long of officers doing things they shouldn't be doing.

I think the point is that society places an enormous amount of responsibility in the hands of these officers, and watching one who is so engrossed in his own power that he behaves disgustingly, is Disgusting.

Honestly, in that video there was no reason to tase anybody. He's gotta have the common sense, and maturity level to keep things under control. "Because you didn't do what I said? I wish the pregnant lady had jacked him from behind. He deserved it.

A Taser is NOT a non-Lethal device, it is LESS lethal, and should only be used to prevent the need to use of deadly force. Letting a simple traffic stop degrade to that is squarely the fault of the officer. I hope he lost his badge - let him play meter maid or something, cause thats all he should be doing.

I am friends with many police officers, but , that kind of crap needs to be weeded out with authority, and with a strong signal.. maybe they could tase him on the way out?


Anyways, sign, don't sign, doesn't matter, you will be appearing - signing gets you back on the road much faster
 
Three times, I think.

Twice I was pulled over by Dallas PD at 5-something AM for speeding on Lemmon Ave. on my way to Love Field, so I wouldn't miss the 6:30. Both times, the officers were looking for something a bit more nefarious than a pilot with spiked hair sans hat, so they let me go quickly with a smile and a gentle warning.

A week before I left Dallas for DC this summer, I had to deadhead out of DFW. I got pulled over by the notorious Coppell PD for failure to signal while changing lanes on 635. The cop notices my left brake light was out, another ticket. He also notices my inspection sticker expired a month previous, another ticket, despite my explanation that I was moving. I got the last two tickets remedied, by wasting my money on an inspection sticker, and getting a new bulb installed. The DA refused to drop the charges... $662 in tickets. Fantastic.

I like 95% of cops, I just have no respect for a policeman whose sole job it is to collect revenue for the city -- like in Coppell.

I don't understand why people don't signal. You just have to push your finger up how hard is it? It's my biggest pet peeve, mostly because I got sideswiped by some <no>brain who didn't look or signal on the highway. I almost get hit weekly or more here because of lazy <people> who can't signal or look over their shoulder.
 
Well, it wasn't for not signing a ticket but for not obeying him when telling him to stop, etc.

This has got to be hard for an officer. You are telling a person to do something and they won't comply. You have to control the situation in some manner. All the guy had to do was do what he was told. There is a lot of stress for the officer in this situation.

Not necessarily condoning it, but he should have just done what he was told.

Hey newsflash for you. Cops do NOT have Carte Blanche to rule the roads however they see fit. This cheesdick probably got beat up in high school and is on a power trip. You don't taser somebody for refusing to sign a ticket. People have died from being tasered.
 
Hey newsflash for you. Cops do NOT have Carte Blanche to rule the roads however they see fit. This cheesdick probably got beat up in high school and is on a power trip. You don't taser somebody for refusing to sign a ticket. People have died from being tasered.
He didn't taser him for not signing the ticket. He tasered him when he told him to stay where he was and he wouldn't do what he said.
 
I hate to tell ya, but in many (probably most) states, the shoulder belt is required, and is a primary offense. (meaning they can initiate a stop for it)

Move to NH if you don't like your seatbelt, as it is not needed if you are over 18. :)

In PA they can't pull you over for just having your seatbelt off, however if you are speeding or have another traffic violation and your caught without it on, you are SOL.
 
Maybe I'm being a devil's advocate, but I don't think this guy got tasered for not signing the ticket. The tasering occurred as the officer asked the guy multiple times to turn around while the guy continued to walk towards the driver side door. I'm not a cop but I imagine he has to think this guy may hop back into his car and take off. Yeah the cop seems like a DB but so does the guy in the truck, he seemed like he took the tasering just fine.
 
Maybe I'm being a devil's advocate, but I don't think this guy got tasered for not signing the ticket. The tasering occurred as the officer asked the guy multiple times to turn around while the guy continued to walk towards the driver side door. I'm not a cop but I imagine he has to think this guy may hop back into his car and take off. Yeah the cop seems like a DB but so does the guy in the truck, he seemed like he took the tasering just fine.
I will say it again as you did: He did NOT get tasered for not signing a ticket. How anyone can see the video and say that is beyond me.
 
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