Pulled over while in uniform?
- Thread starter mrivc211
- Start date
ZapBrannigan
If it ain’t a Boeing, I’m not going. No choice.
Yeah, the officer handed me the ticket after I had been very humble and polite -- but he didn't offer a pen with it. I looked at it and asked, "Do you need me to sign this sir?"
He replied, "Unless you want to be arrested."
Nice.
Anyhow, on a related topic. Has anyone ever gone to court for a speeding ticket?
He got me going 55 in a 45 -- although I didn't do so on purpose. I was just cruising along with the cruise control on and in no particular hurry. The ticket is $135.
Is there any value in my going to court for this? Will I get points on my license? Will this result in significantly higher insurance premiums?
The reason I ask is because I'll need to take a vacation day to go to court (they won't change the court date for me) so I want to know that it will be worth my while before I go down that road.
Thanks in advance for info.
He replied, "Unless you want to be arrested."
Nice.
Anyhow, on a related topic. Has anyone ever gone to court for a speeding ticket?
He got me going 55 in a 45 -- although I didn't do so on purpose. I was just cruising along with the cruise control on and in no particular hurry. The ticket is $135.
Is there any value in my going to court for this? Will I get points on my license? Will this result in significantly higher insurance premiums?
The reason I ask is because I'll need to take a vacation day to go to court (they won't change the court date for me) so I want to know that it will be worth my while before I go down that road.
Thanks in advance for info.
Approach Control
New Member
As for the question about why the "need for speed" (though I'm not a pilot yet), I would say that there must be at least a little of that deep inside every pilot - or one learning to become a pilot.
On the streets, I accelerate manually. Too many reasons to stop or slowdown on the roads for me to use CC where I live. On the highway, I used CC about 50% of the time and I set it at the limit. I always keep a safe vehicle separation factor of up to 10:1. That means, for every 10 mph that MY car is traveling, I keep 1 car lengths distance from the bumper of the vehicle directly in front of me. I'm one of the most thoughtful and respectful drivers on the road - IMO.
As for the Police Officers who have stopped me on the road in the past - 50% were respectful and smart and 50% were uneducated jerks.
The jerks need to get off the force - period. The jerks make it hard for the good cops on the street/road. I do NOT support bad cops and I let them know that I have no problem hunting down their career and taking it from them, if they step across the line (and I can do that). I ALWAYS support good cops - I've even helped good cops make an arrest once before. Our nation needs more rock solid [good] cops and I will always be there to support them. I also support Fire Fighters and EMTs - we need them!
My next landspeeder will be the Bugatti Veyron 16.4. However, I have zero intention of pushing that to its top speed (254 mph) on any public highway. But, I will take the car [routinely] to the track and have some fun with it there, where it belongs. I also hope to schedule several runs at Bonneville and I hope to work with Bugatti to get a special eddition Veyron engine capable of more than 1,200-1,400 hp, making it the fasted Veyron in existence - hopefully between 260 - 270 mph (top speed).
So, the need for speed is real. I'm just not sure if it is genetic or learned at this point, however?
On the streets, I accelerate manually. Too many reasons to stop or slowdown on the roads for me to use CC where I live. On the highway, I used CC about 50% of the time and I set it at the limit. I always keep a safe vehicle separation factor of up to 10:1. That means, for every 10 mph that MY car is traveling, I keep 1 car lengths distance from the bumper of the vehicle directly in front of me. I'm one of the most thoughtful and respectful drivers on the road - IMO.
As for the Police Officers who have stopped me on the road in the past - 50% were respectful and smart and 50% were uneducated jerks.
The jerks need to get off the force - period. The jerks make it hard for the good cops on the street/road. I do NOT support bad cops and I let them know that I have no problem hunting down their career and taking it from them, if they step across the line (and I can do that). I ALWAYS support good cops - I've even helped good cops make an arrest once before. Our nation needs more rock solid [good] cops and I will always be there to support them. I also support Fire Fighters and EMTs - we need them!
My next landspeeder will be the Bugatti Veyron 16.4. However, I have zero intention of pushing that to its top speed (254 mph) on any public highway. But, I will take the car [routinely] to the track and have some fun with it there, where it belongs. I also hope to schedule several runs at Bonneville and I hope to work with Bugatti to get a special eddition Veyron engine capable of more than 1,200-1,400 hp, making it the fasted Veyron in existence - hopefully between 260 - 270 mph (top speed).
So, the need for speed is real. I'm just not sure if it is genetic or learned at this point, however?
SpiraMirabilis
Possible Subversive
I do it most of the time. In most states / counties / cities you can usually get a deferred adjudication ("speeding parole") where the charge is dismissed so long as you keep clean for X months. They charge an "administration fee" that is close to the fine amount but it will save you money on insurance.
Approach Control
New Member
It is bad cop attitude like that which causes me to remind the cop of his actual duty, responsibility and authority under the law - namely the Constitution of the United States of America. When you detect that you have been stopped by a "bad cop," - immediately let the cop know that you will not tolerate being "harassed" and "unlawfully detained" due to his/her attempt to violate your "Constitutionally granted Civil Rights." Immediately follow that exact language with a calm request for their Badge Number, FULL NAME and the name and "official business address" of their Superior.
Once a bad cop knows that YOU understand what you are doing, they will typically button up their act, because they do not know just how far you are willing to press the stability of their career. The very last thing you should be, is afraid of a bad cop. Most of these people would have never passed the psych evaluation given to FBI Agents and most certainly not any higher level of National Security psych evals. Bad cops are prototypical punks wearing a uniform simply because they think the Badge and the Gun give them authority. They typically don't think that YOU understand that THEIR authority DOES NOT derive from EITHER the Badge or the Gun. Their authority is derived from the Law and the Law alone.
There are rules and protocols that all law enforcement agents are required to adhere to, when engaged in law enforcement - these are called Progressives and they apply to both Military and Civilian Police. No civilian police officer has established grounds for arrest unless he/she can PROVE in a court of law (subsequently) that either:
A) A law was broken.
B) A law was about to be broken.
Determining and proving "A" is easy for most cops. Determining and proving "B" is 99% of the time, very difficult to prove and THAT is where you have leverage as an American Citizen under the Constitution of the United States of America. Failure to sign a Misdemeanor Traffic Violation Issuance, because your citing officer failed to provide you with a pen (most jurisdictions require ink), is not grounds for Misdemeanor Arrest.
Know your rights - but most importantly, know and understand the duties, responsibilities and authority given/sourced to Law Enforcement Officials.
When you sign that ticket, you are basically telling the Judge that YOU agree with what the citing officer has observed. No officer can force you to agree with his observations - no officer has the "authority" to do that. Not even a sitting Judge can force you to sign and ONLY a sitting Judge has the Constitutional authority to order your civil arrest, but ONLY after holding you in contempt of a court order.
Again, do NOT fear bad cops. You can take any Misdemeanor matter to court and if the cop fails to show, you will have the ear of the Judge in his/her absence. You can ask for a trial by a jury of your peers and a court date must be set where you will then be able to put your case before a jury. Ultimately, it is the court that determines the outcome - not bad cops.
Hope this helps.
TurdBird
Well-Known Member
Not true.
I don't know where you got the idea that by you signing the ticket you are telling the Judge you agree with the ticket. You have to sign the ticket promising you will appear in court. You're not admitting guilt. Did you ever read the fine print when you signed for your drivers license?
You don't have to sign the ticket. Ask any cop if they care whether or not you sign it. Don't start complaining when it's time for you to take a ride to jail.
If you're going to play Mr. I Know the Law then at least know it.
TurdBird
Well-Known Member
Was the officer using radar or did he pace clock you?
SpiraMirabilis
Possible Subversive
When you get pulled over you are "seized" (or detained), for all intents and purposes you could consider yourself under arrest. You can't just say 'Well, I think I'm leaving now' and drive off. What you're signing on the ticket is a summons and that you agree to go before a magistrate/judge/etc on a specific date. Once you agree to the summons and sign it the police officer lets you go and you leave on your merry way. However, if you do not agree and do not sign the summons -- well, the cop is still going to get you in front of a magistrate, you'll just sit in jail in between now and then.
ZapBrannigan
If it ain’t a Boeing, I’m not going. No choice.
He used a radar gun.
TurdBird
Well-Known Member
Ok. If and when you go to court ask to see his most recent radar calibration. He must have that with him in order to have any case at all. Many times officers show up without it, or it is expired, and the ticket is thrown out. Also, in Florida you must put the model number and calibration date of the radar gun on the ticket itself or it is no good. You can check into that right away and know if that alone can get it thrown out. Once again, many are given out without that information. Good luck.
Approach Control
New Member
I stand corrected on admission of guilt - that's not what I was intending to say and I got the order of my words switched. But, I'll take responsibility for posting it, because I typed the words.
However, ask any cop?
All I have to do is turn to the five that are in my extended family. No cop has the legal authority to arrest you for not signing a ticket. Have you ever arrested anyone for not signing a Misdemeanor Citation? Do you know of any cop that has arrested a citizen of the United States of America, for not signing a Misdemeanor Citation? Can you cite the statute within your jurisdiction that is aligned with the Constitution of your State and the Constitution of the United States of America, that gives any cop the civil authority to make a civil arrest for failure of a Citizen to ink a Misdemeanor Citation? If you can, I'd appreciate the effort on your part for educating me.
While I do hold three college degrees, I don't consider myself to be Mr. Know-It-All. If I did, I would not be on this forum. I love aerospace, aviation, aircraft and [in general] the attitudes and personalities of the people involved with General Aviation. What I don't like are psychologically unstable cops who think they "own the highways, roads and streets."
I have a friend who is a cop and is now going through his Private training - he too is about my age. We meet up at the same barbershop about every three weeks or so. He has a good head on his shoulder and a college degree. He has intellect and he's dedicated to his profession, which means he's dedicated to doing his job right and on the level. Bad cops give my friend and bad name and it is not fair to good cops like him.
Attitude is a major problem for bad cops and it should be screened out during the psych eval. It would cost the cities and counties in which these cops with bad attitude work a lot less money in civil lawsuits.
I like law enforcement. It is absolutely necessary in our society. But, I do not like cops with attitude - nor will I ever support them. In fact, good cops don't like cops with attitude, because they know how that makes their job just that much more difficult on the streets.
Cops are cops - not God.
Approach Control
New Member
Not without a Warrant issued. No cop has the legal authority to issue a Warrant for arrest. There is plenty of myth out there regarding what cops can and cannot do while in the course of discharging their duty and they are not authorized to give you legal advice.
Absent "A" and/or "B" above in my post, where is the legal justification for making the arrest absent a lawfully executed Warrant? The fact that people thought the world was flat for eons, did not alter the reality which proved to be much different.
People just "go along" with a lot of things that law enforcement officials attempt to do, out of ignorance, fear and intimidation when engaged with law enforcement on the streets. That does not make it right. Remember, a traffic citation is a Misdemeanor violation - an Infraction - not a Criminal act. Criminal acts put law enforcement officials in a completely different vein of authorization.
Again, if anyone can post a statute showing the legal authority given to a beat cop for arresting a private U.S. citizen on American soil, for failure to sign a Misdemeanor citation, then I'd really appreciate seeing it.
ZapBrannigan
If it ain’t a Boeing, I’m not going. No choice.
Anybody have any suggestions regarding my questions as to whether or not it is worthwhile to take a vacation day to go to court over this and whether or not 10 mph over will take points from my license?
TurdBird
Well-Known Member
Don't sign the ticket and you're going to jail. It is as simple as that. I don't have the statute you are looking for.
I agree with you 110% in regards to attitude in law enforcement. As everyone knows there are plenty of people in law enforcement that should not be. They are the ones who make the news and regardless of how many good things an officer can do, the general public will remember the bad ones.
TurdBird
Well-Known Member
Just like Seggy said, take a look at what it will do to your insurance. It might not be that expensive of a ticket but it might start to hurt when insurance comes into play.
TurdBird
Well-Known Member
Approach Control,
Right out of my Florida Criminal and Traffic Law Manual
318.14 Noncriminal traffic infractions; exception; procedures.--
(2) Except as provided in s. 316.1001(2), any person cited for an infraction under this section must sign and accept a citation indicating a promise to appear. The officer may indicate on the traffic citation the time and location of the scheduled hearing and must indicate the applicable civil penalty established in s. 318.18.
(3) Any person who willfully refuses to accept and sign a summons is guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree.
Right out of my Florida Criminal and Traffic Law Manual
318.14 Noncriminal traffic infractions; exception; procedures.--
(2) Except as provided in s. 316.1001(2), any person cited for an infraction under this section must sign and accept a citation indicating a promise to appear. The officer may indicate on the traffic citation the time and location of the scheduled hearing and must indicate the applicable civil penalty established in s. 318.18.
(3) Any person who willfully refuses to accept and sign a summons is guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree.
