Today's Pinnacle conference call

pilotlight

Well-Known Member
Did anyone else listen to it?
Here are some highlights (or lowlights if you want to call them that)
They expect little to no profit margin in 2009
No Growth expected in 2009 next chance may be in 2011 or 2012
120 million note due in Feb of 2010
Layoffs in every department
No more 401k match for non pilot employees starting in march for at least a year
Higher maintenance costs on the way with the aging fleet.
Pilot negotiations begin on monday for another full week only to be disapointed in the end probably.

What are your thoughts?
 
So . . . just for perspective. . .

50 years ago, if not even longer, Pension funds were promised to employees.

Over those 50 years various investment tools have been sold to the masses, that they instead can "control" their retirement. . .and well. . .they end up with nothing to retire on.

So now, companies are taking away whatever "benefit" of having a 401(k) because of "tough financial times."

:banghead:

Good luck.

Layoffs in every department, that doesn't sound good. That'll certainly improve the economy as well. . .lemme tell ya.
 
Gotta love having 100+ million in auction rate illiquid securities. This is the typical scare tactic.. Sky is always falling! I'm sure there will be layoffs if we lose 3k hours. We are still cost + on contracts so labor "in theory" is billed to daddy delta. If 9l starts showing profit (nothing agandt the pilots, just mgmt and the startup cost for Q's) we should be ok. This company did the same "doom and gloom" over the nw asa in 06 and the delta renegotiation in 08. I ain't scared.
 
Gotta love having 100+ million in auction rate illiquid securities. This is the typical scare tactic.. Sky is always falling! I'm sure there will be layoffs if we lose 3k hours. We are still cost + on contracts so labor "in theory" is billed to daddy delta. If 9l starts showing profit (nothing agandt the pilots, just mgmt and the startup cost for Q's) we should be ok. This company did the same "doom and gloom" over the nw asa in 06 and the delta renegotiation in 08. I ain't scared.

I think it is a little of doom and gloom but also a little bit of reality. I mean the economy does suck right now.
 
I remember a similar doom and gloom conference call while I was in upgrade training. Honestly, I can't even remember what triggered it now.

Bottom line is management gambled with the auction rate securities and LOST big time. The front line employees that make the operation run day in and day out got stabbed in the back by something management thought would net some $$$. Instead of playing it smart and holding onto the cash, they wanted more. It backfired, and we're ALL paying the price. Somehow, the shareholders haven't called a no confidence vote, either, after seeing their shares flushed down the toilet. If management hadn't played the ARS game, we'd have cash in the bank, and the conference call wouldn't have happened.

Ken's right. Unless Delta is re-negotiating the contract (which they may well be since management feels the employees should be the last to know on everything), if our costs are in parity with the rest of the industry, they get passed on to them. That's the way the NWA contract is, and that survives the "acquisition" (merger is a misnomer, IMO) intact since NWA wasn't acquired in a bankruptcy. So, if they're expecting no profit in 2009, then it's something MANAGEMENT has f'ed up somewhere.
 
Glad to see you guys aren't worried. I sure am.

Seems to me like Mesaba wasn't ready for the Delta shell game in the slightest. Staffing up for airplanes we were never going to get, and everyone seemed to know it but us. I'm thinking furloughs followed by chpt 11. Who knows though, MSP guys keep telling me, "Delta took the planes away quick, they could give it back just as quick."
 
Did anyone else listen to it?
Here are some highlights (or lowlights if you want to call them that)
They expect little to no profit margin in 2009
No Growth expected in 2009 next chance may be in 2011 or 2012
120 million note due in Feb of 2010
Layoffs in every department
No more 401k match for non pilot employees starting in march for at least a year
Higher maintenance costs on the way with the aging fleet.
Pilot negotiations begin on monday for another full week only to be disapointed in the end probably.

What are your thoughts?

the first 3 are no surprise, lets be real is anyone shocked?
layoff's.. this should be interesting, some departments have a lot of fat some are thin already. The sad part is you can almost bet that the pilots will be blamed for some of it.
401K match, for the non-pilots that is huge, they had a really sweet 401K program and I am sure this will unsettle some management types too. that was one of the things they use to push real hard to get people to come on board.

the last two.. one is no surprise and the other the OP already it the nail on the head.

they have been crying poor since Dec '05 (when we started section 6)m now they can show some paper to show where all the money that could have gone to a new contract went. So much for the 2nd and 3rd guiding principal.
 
the first 3 are no surprise, lets be real is anyone shocked?
layoff's.. this should be interesting, some departments have a lot of fat some are thin already. The sad part is you can almost bet that the pilots will be blamed for some of it.
401K match, for the non-pilots that is huge, they had a really sweet 401K program and I am sure this will unsettle some management types too. that was one of the things they use to push real hard to get people to come on board.

the last two.. one is no surprise and the other the OP already it the nail on the head.

they have been crying poor since Dec '05 (when we started section 6)m now they can show some paper to show where all the money that could have gone to a new contract went. So much for the 2nd and 3rd guiding principal.

I can't help but think that the timing of all of this is suspect. NEgotiations next week, I am wondering if they have been given some sort of deadline to get this contract done and this is one of there last cards to play. We will see.
 
Glad to see you guys aren't worried. I sure am.

Seems to me like Mesaba wasn't ready for the Delta shell game in the slightest. Staffing up for airplanes we were never going to get, and everyone seemed to know it but us. I'm thinking furloughs followed by chpt 11. Who knows though, MSP guys keep telling me, "Delta took the planes away quick, they could give it back just as quick."

I have to admit I never saw what delta did to you guys coming at all. I figured you were going to continue your 900 growth.
 
I can't help but think that the timing of all of this is suspect. NEgotiations next week, I am wondering if they have been given some sort of deadline to get this contract done and this is one of there last cards to play. We will see.

if there was an official deadline it would have been posted and I am sure the SPC would be ramped up full time.

the company has cried poor to the NMB and to the association for years. Each passing period our side of the contract becomes more expensive, from the really cheap seats.. I don't think the company really cares.

They got a bunch more cards to play, don't think for a second that they will not drag this until the very end.
 
Seems to me like Mesaba wasn't ready for the Delta shell game in the slightest. Staffing up for airplanes we were never going to get, and everyone seemed to know it but us. I'm thinking furloughs followed by chpt 11. Who knows though, MSP guys keep telling me, "Delta took the planes away quick, they could give it back just as quick."

Did I miss something? Is mesaba losing planes?
 
I have a comment about this whole Pinnacle mess, if the company was really in trouble, don't you think we would be hearing some doom and gloom stuff out of colgan since both of our profits or losses go right to the umbrella that is Pinnacle Corp. What affects one affects the other now.
 
I have a comment about this whole Pinnacle mess, if the company was really in trouble, don't you think we would be hearing some doom and gloom stuff out of colgan since both of our profits or losses go right to the umbrella that is Pinnacle Corp. What affects one affects the other now.


Good point, from what we know Colgan is making about 10% profit on the Q side, which is unheard of for them. And Pinnacle's Saab replanning has supposedly brought them to breaking even or close to it. The more Saabs we lose, the better profit margin we should get.

I wish both pilot groups luck on their contract negotiations.
 
I have a comment about this whole Pinnacle mess, if the company was really in trouble, don't you think we would be hearing some doom and gloom stuff out of colgan since both of our profits or losses go right to the umbrella that is Pinnacle Corp. What affects one affects the other now.

Nah, the money shell game only goes one direction. Well, now that Colgan is ALPA it might just stop all together......
 
I have a comment about this whole Pinnacle mess, if the company was really in trouble, don't you think we would be hearing some doom and gloom stuff out of colgan since both of our profits or losses go right to the umbrella that is Pinnacle Corp. What affects one affects the other now.

nope... think about it.. Colgan technically is the only one growing, Pinnacle NWA is stagnant if not shrinking and the DAL side has growth on the horizon. Regardless, colgan is still cheaper to operate (smaller) and in the near term more growth=more money.

Pinnacle corp is just shell, don't worry in contract discussions with colgan I am sure they will cry poor and there will be some doom and gloom. It is hard to be doom and gloom though when there is growth.
 
nope... think about it.. Colgan technically is the only one growing, Pinnacle NWA is stagnant if not shrinking and the DAL side has growth on the horizon. Regardless, colgan is still cheaper to operate (smaller) and in the near term more growth=more money.

Pinnacle corp is just shell, don't worry in contract discussions with colgan I am sure they will cry poor and there will be some doom and gloom. It is hard to be doom and gloom though when there is growth.

Do you see some growth the rest of us don't?
 
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