How do you log time as a Safety Pilot?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Adler
  • Start date Start date
Just to add onto mooneyguy's post, I usually record the safety pilot's name AND certificate # so that there's no doubt as to the safety pilot's qualification.
 
Matt - you get the "Hero of the Day" award in my book. That just upped my PIC time considerably.

Thanks man!
 
You can log it as either PIC or SIC depending on what your role is for the flight. Being safety pilot doesn't automatically make you the PIC, for example you could be non-current and not qualified to be PIC. Log only the time your friend was under the hood or when you were the sole manipulator of the controls, or get your CFI and log it all as dual given :D
 
Right seat is PIC through declaration prior to commencing flight operations. Left seat is PIC through ‘sole manipulation of the flight controls’. While being a safety pilot will work…it only works if in VFR conditions. The second you enter IMC a safety pilot is nothing more than a passenger.
<O:p</O:p
To take this one step further, I can sit in the back and log PIC as a CFII :rawk:
 
ftyflyboy said:
Right seat is PIC through declaration prior to commencing flight operations. Left seat is PIC through ‘sole manipulation of the flight controls’.
Click to expand...

While you're right the PIC/SIC arrangement is set up by declaration or mutual agreement with the other pilot, there's nothing in 61.51 that bases the kind of time you should log on whether you seat in the right or left seat. PIC time is logged when you are the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft in which you're rated, or in the special circumstance of safety pilot, you get to log PIC if you're serving as the official PIC and performing duties of a safety pilot. If, for whatever reason, you're not the official PIC in the capacity of a safety pilot, you'd log it as SIC.

Not that it applies here, but just a tidbit for anyone interested: in the military heavy world, we will frequently alternate seats. One sortie I'll take the left seat and then another sortie I'll take the right seat--doesn't make me the pilot-in-command. The PIC (aircraft commander) can sit whereever they want--right seat, left seat, jump seat, nav station, even the back; that person has an "A" next to his/her name on the flight orders. Of course, if you're the pilot flying the airplane, you log what's called "primary" time, not "PIC" time. While it's a pain in the rear to try to reconcile your military time to what the airlines and/or FAA want to see for the purposes of applying for a job/getting your ATP, etc, I think the Air Force does a better job calling the type of flying you're doing what it is. Why the FAA lets you log "PIC" time just because you happen to be flying the airplane (whether or not you're really the PIC) is beyond me and just plain dumb as far as I'm concerned, but the reg is the reg.
 
ftyflyboy said:
Right seat is PIC through declaration prior to commencing flight operations. Left seat is PIC through ‘sole manipulation of the flight controls’.
Click to expand...
Nope. Only one person =is= PIC at a time. More than one person might be able to =log= PIC at a time, but only one person =is= PIC.

While being a safety pilot will work…it only works if in VFR conditions. The second you enter IMC a safety pilot is nothing more than a passenger.
Click to expand...
So you're saying that if you are flying 400' below a cloud deck with 100 miles visibility ("IMC") and put on a hood, the rules don't require a safety pilot until you get 501' below the deck? Or are you saying that it's illegal to put on a hood until you get 501' below the clouds?

Or, are you saying that, if you are in a scattered to broken cloud layer but with a 900' ceiling and want to practice the ILS to minimums at an airport, so you decide to keep the hood on all the time, no safety pilot is required? Or that you're not allowed to put a hood on in those conditions?
 
Adler said:
I was curious as to the way many of you log your time after a safety pilot flight. I've heard many different ways people log them, and I've also heard of reason's why they're wrong.

I never logged any safety pilot time before, but now I'm feeling the pressures time building, and I regret it. I know people who log it all PIC; however I once had a DE tell me you only log PIC if you take the controls to prevent an accident, otherwise you log SIC.
Click to expand...
Does this help?

May a Safety Pilot Log PIC Time?
 
MidlifeFlyer said:
So you're saying that if you are flying 400' below a cloud deck with 100 miles visibility ("IMC") and put on a hood, the rules don't require a safety pilot until you get 501' below the deck? Or are you saying that it's illegal to put on a hood until you get 501' below the clouds?

Or, are you saying that, if you are in a scattered to broken cloud layer but with a 900' ceiling and want to practice the ILS to minimums at an airport, so you decide to keep the hood on all the time, no safety pilot is required? Or that you're not allowed to put a hood on in those conditions?
Click to expand...

Let me rephrase, not IMC I meant to type 'actual'

As far as the hood goes...wear it whenever you want. Sometimes I wear mine while driving and talking on my cell phone all the while switching songs on my ipod and smoking :)

By the way, I'm a big fan of your site and use it often.
 
ftyflyboy said:
While being a safety pilot will work…it only works if in VFR conditions. The second you enter IMC a safety pilot is nothing more than a passenger.
Click to expand...

This statement got me thinking.

If I file an instrument plan(when I pass the test) and allow a freind, who has his PPL, to fly the airplane under the hood, but we happen to dip in and out of some IMC, we can both still log PIC, regardless of meteorological conditions.

I filed the IFR plan, since I am the only one able to do so, so I am the acting PIC for the entire flight. He is under the hood, so I am required when VFR and also when we go IMC because he could not legally be there without my filing of the flight plan and being the acting PIC. He is the sole manipulator of the controls for the entire flight, both in and out of IMC, so again we can both log the entire time as PIC. I dont see anything in the regs that says a PPL can not log PIC in IMC, afterall, we all do it when we are out with our CFII's.

That is my take on it. I would like to hear others views on this though and please provide reasoning based on the FAR's. I am thinking purely regulatory, not if it will be a questioned practice during an interview.
 
Matt13C said:
I filed the IFR plan, since I am the only one able to do so, so I am the acting PIC for the entire flight. He is under the hood, so I am required when VFR and also when we go IMC because he could not legally be there without my filing of the flight plan and being the acting PIC. He is the sole manipulator of the controls for the entire flight, both in and out of IMC, so again we can both log the entire time as PIC. I dont see anything in the regs that says a PPL can not log PIC in IMC, afterall, we all do it when we are out with our CFII's.

That is my take on it. I would like to hear others views on this though and please provide reasoning based on the FAR's. I am thinking purely regulatory, not if it will be a questioned practice during an interview.
Click to expand...
I agree with you on the result, but I may or may not agree on the the reasoning. Let's see...

If you are on an IFR flight plan and you are the only one on board who is instrument rated, you are indeed acting as PIC because you are the only one legal to do so. IMC or not IMC is irrelevant.

I agree with you that a non-instrument rated pilot may log PIC in IMC. 61.51 requires the sole manipulator to have the appropriate =aircraft= ratings, not the applicable =condition= ratings.

If the flying pilot is under the hood, then a safety pilot is required by 91.109(b). I disagree with ftyflyboy on the "actual" issue. I think the rule requiring a safety pilot does not depend on the weather conditions outside but only on whether the flying pilot's view is being intentionally restricted (such as by wearing a hood). If the flying pilot is using a view-limiting device, a safety pilot is required. VMC, IMC, actual are all irrelevant.
 
Should also add that the safety pilot need not be current medically unless the safety pilot is acting as PIC.
 
I've always logged it PIC.

How I count the time, Since you shouldn't really be putting foggles on until you're 400ft AGL or so, I count all the time in VMC above 400ft AGL (assuming they wear foggles the whole time). Because of the little amount of time needed to fly 400ft on climb or descent, the little hobbs time is usually what i log where as the flying pilot gets the big hobbs. At any moment we were to enter actual IMC, I am no longer a safety pilot and as such I don't get to log that time.

Big hobbs: 6.3
Little hobbs: 6.0
Actual .5

I log 5.5 hours PIC if I'm Safety pilot.
 
mjg407 said:
Should also add that the safety pilot need not be current medically unless the safety pilot is acting as PIC.
Click to expand...
Why would you add something incorrect?

A safety pilot is a required crewmember 91.109(b)
A required crewmember requires a current medical. 61.3(c)
 
ClearedToTakeoff said:
I've always logged it PIC.

How I count the time, Since you shouldn't really be putting foggles on until you're 400ft AGL or so, I count all the time in VMC above 400ft AGL (assuming they wear foggles the whole time). Because of the little amount of time needed to fly 400ft on climb or descent, the little hobbs time is usually what i log where as the flying pilot gets the big hobbs. At any moment we were to enter actual IMC, I am no longer a safety pilot and as such I don't get to log that time.

Big hobbs: 6.3
Little hobbs: 6.0
Actual .5

I log 5.5 hours PIC if I'm Safety pilot.
Click to expand...

I assume that if you are going IMC, you are IFR rated. If the other pilot is not, you are a required crew member, being that you are the only person capable of filing an IFR plan. You are then the acting PIC the entire flight and should log it as such. The pilot flying, can also log the entire flight as PIC since they are the sole manipulator of the controls, even thought they are not the acting PIC. You are giving away .8 PIC time, which by itself is not much. but if done over a few flights, when building towards a Comm rating could will end up costing you more time and money.

If however, you both are IFR rated and you are correct, once you enter IMC you are no longer required so should only log SIC.
 
MidlifeFlyer said:
Why would you add something incorrect?

A safety pilot is a required crewmember 91.109(b)
A required crewmember requires a current medical. 61.3(c)
Click to expand...
Misspoke, meant that a safety pilot need not be current in the aircraft unless that safety pilot is acting as pilot in command..... sorry:mad:
 
So you fly somewhere for 2.0 while sitting right seat and guy in left is wearing foggles.

You'd log.
Total: 2.0
PIC:1.8 (or however long he had the foggles on)

Left seat would log:
Total: 2.0
PIC: 2.0
Simulated: 1.8
XC 2.0
plus landing at destination
 
PGT said:
So you fly somewhere for 2.0 while sitting right seat and guy in left is wearing foggles.

You'd log.
Total: 2.0
PIC:1.8 (or however long he had the foggles on)
Day/night: 1.8
XC: 1.8

Left seat would log:
Total: 2.0
PIC: 2.0
Simulated: 1.8
XC 2.0
plus landing at destination
Click to expand...
 
Matt13C said:
I assume that if you are going IMC, you are IFR rated. If the other pilot is not, you are a required crew member, being that you are the only person capable of filing an IFR plan. You are then the acting PIC the entire flight and should log it as such. The pilot flying, can also log the entire flight as PIC since they are the sole manipulator of the controls, even thought they are not the acting PIC. You are giving away .8 PIC time, which by itself is not much. but if done over a few flights, when building towards a Comm rating could will end up costing you more time and money.

If however, you both are IFR rated and you are correct, once you enter IMC you are no longer required so should only log SIC.
Click to expand...
Yes. I forgot to to clarify both are IFR rated. That's how i've done all my time building flights was with another instrument rated pilot so I forgot there were other situations that arise lol. Nothing is black and white.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top