How do you log time as a Safety Pilot?

[Adler]

I was curious as to the way many of you log your time after a safety pilot flight. I've heard many different ways people log them, and I've also heard of reason's why they're wrong.

I never logged any safety pilot time before, but now I'm feeling the pressures time building, and I regret it. I know people who log it all PIC; however I once had a DE tell me you only log PIC if you take the controls to prevent an accident, otherwise you log SIC.

 

[c172captain]

When you act as Safety Pilot, you are acting as PIC. I'd pull out a FAR, but I'm far too lazy. You begin logging the PIC as soon as the other pilot relies on you for traffic and terrain avoidance (when he/she puts the hood on).

 

[TGatch]

:yeahthat: if one of you is under the hood you can both log PIC. If not Only the one operating the controls can log it PIC.

 

[Adler]

Ok...I guess the next step is more of a personal preference, but do you log the entire flight, and then a portion of it as pic...

ex:

Day Night PIC Total
1.5 .8 1.5

...or do you only log the PIC as the total flight

Day Night PIC Total
.8 .8 .8

 

[TGatch]

Ok...I guess the next step is more of a personal preference, but do you log the entire flight, and then a portion of it as pic...

ex:

Day Night PIC Total
1.5 .8 1.5

...or do you only log the PIC as the total flight

Day Night PIC Total
.8 .8 .8

I would say the first One you put down. I think you'd log all the time, but only PIC when under the hood or at the controls. I only say this because you're both pilots so I'd think you can both log the time.

 

[Roger, Roger]

What part of 61.55 allows a private/commercial pilot log time during which you are not a required flight crew member (such as when the other pilot is not under the hood)?

 

[Douglas]

Don't log time that you were not required.

So if the flight was 1.2 total the flying PIC would log all 1.2.
You as safety pilot would only log time that you were PIC. i.e. 1.0.

otherwise they will ask, "well did he taxi out with the foggles on too?".

If you are not required you are just a pax, and you are most defiantly not SIC.

 

[Roger, Roger]

Don't log time that you were not required.

So if the flight was 1.2 total the flying PIC would log all 1.2.
You as safety pilot would only log time that you were PIC. i.e. 1.0.

otherwise they will ask, "well did he taxi out with the foggles on too?".

If you are not required you are just a pax, and you are most defiantly not SIC.

:yeahthat:
That's what I was getting at.

 

[Matt13C]

Both pilots can log the total duration of flight as PIC.

The two pilots determine the saftey pilot is the acting PIC for the flight and if a flight plan is filed it is done under their name.

The other pilot can log it since they were the sole manipulator of the controls for the entire flight.

Safety pilot logs PIC under FAR 1.1 definition of PIC

Pilot in command means the person who:
(1) Has final authority and responsibility for the operation and
safety of the flight;
(2) Has been designated as pilot in command before or during the
flight; and
(3) Holds the appropriate category, class, and type rating, if
appropriate, for the conduct of the flight.

The pilot flying logs it under 61.51
(e) Logging pilot-in-command flight time. (1) A sport, recreational, private, or commercial pilot may log pilot-in-command time only for that flight time during which that person—
(i) Is the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which the pilot is rated or has privileges;
(ii) Is the sole occupant of the aircraft; or
(iii) Except for a recreational pilot, is acting as pilot in command of an aircraft on which more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft or the regulations under which the flight is conducted.

 

[Slot Pilot]

So if I want to remain instrument current, and take a Safety Pilot along w/me, they can have as little as a private pilot's license, right?
OK, second question. I go up, shoot 6 approaches, do a hold, yada yada yada - I log it in my logbook. Does the safety pilot need to sign my book too, as proof that it was done?
txs

 

[frog_flyer]

Can you do the safety pilot crap if you're flying IFR?

 

[Matt13C]

Can you do the safety pilot crap if you're flying IFR?

My understanding is, if you have an instrument rated pilot willing to file an instrument plan and fly with you, then the you can fly and log it as PIC, just as if you were with an instructor. The pilot sitting right seat whos name the flight plan is filed under can also log the time as PIC since without him, you can not be in actual IFR on an IFR flight plan.

 

[PaulR]

My understanding is, if you have an instrument rated pilot willing to file an instrument plan and fly with you, then the you can fly and log it as PIC, just as if you were with an instructor. The pilot sitting right seat whos name the flight plan is filed under can also log the time as PIC since without him, you can not be in actual IFR on an IFR flight plan.

Matt,

Lets forget about the regs for a minute. If you were going for a job do you think you could justify your flight time to the person across the table with that explanation? More importantly is that the intent of the regulation and will the person scrutinize your hours more because of it?

Just posing that thought. Adler, Call the local FSDO.

Good Luck.

 

[Douglas]

Both pilots can log the total duration of flight as PIC.

Your reg you posted really didn't back up your cause. Again, is he required? no. Does he get to log? no

Can you do the safety pilot crap if you're flying IFR?

Are you talking about IMC or being on an IFR flight plan? No safety pilot is allowed in IMC. Safety pilot is allowed on an IFR flight plan, somebody just needs to be able to file legally.

Matt,

Lets forget about the regs for a minute.

You said it brother.

 

[frog_flyer]

Sweet. We flew for about 9.0 on a trip and filed the whole way, and only hit IMC for about 30 minutes the entire trip. Thanks dudes.

 

[PaulR]

Sweet. We flew for about 9.0 on a trip and filed the whole way, and only hit IMC for about 30 minutes the entire trip. Thanks dudes.

If your Buddy was wearing a View limiting device and you were acting as safety pilot and are rated for that aircraft, generally speaking, your good.

..But 9.0 hours, geez. Your a trooper. I would be careful about having to many 9 hour safety pilot flights. The questions I see comming up would be. Why? did your friend get fatigued at all, was there an auto pilot, etc... Mind you those are only concerns for an interview.

A future boss may look at flights like that with sceptisim since that long a flight of 8.5 hours of hood time is rather rare. Always be cautious if what you are logging is worth the possible negative aspects. I have seen people get into some odd situations because they were within the regs but when real life is applied the person looking at the book was less that impressed.

Good luck

 

[Ian_J]

My understanding is, if you have an instrument rated pilot willing to file an instrument plan and fly with you, then the you can fly and log it as PIC, just as if you were with an instructor. The pilot sitting right seat whos name the flight plan is filed under can also log the time as PIC since without him, you can not be in actual IFR on an IFR flight plan.

Is this some kind of local lore passed down at your flight school?

In the two definitions of PIC above, see any mention of "name filed on flight plan?"

In your scenario above your instrument rated friend is logging PIC because he's the only one qualified to do so. If you go with and he allows you to fiddle with the controls, just call it personal fulfillment and experience because you can't log a second of it.

 

[Matt13C]

Is this some kind of local lore passed down at your flight school?

In the two definitions of PIC above, see any mention of "name filed on flight plan?"

In your scenario above your instrument rated friend is logging PIC because he's the only one qualified to do so. If you go with and he allows you to fiddle with the controls, just call it personal fulfillment and experience because you can't log a second of it.

Why cant I? I am rated for the category and class and I am the sole manipulator of the controls. That allows me to log the time as PIC under 61.51(e)(i). I am however, not the acting PIC, my friend is.

Just as it is when I go into actual with my CFII, he logs it as acting PIC and I log it as the sole manipulator of the controls.

The flight plan statement was just my way of showing that the decision was made regarding who would be the acting PIC prior to departure. If we went out VFR, did not file a plan, but made the same decision, for him to be acting and I to be flying, we can both still log PIC.

The FAA interpretation.
December 8, 1993fficeffice" /><O></O>
<O></O>
MR. STEVE HICKS<O></O>
711 North C <O></O>
Livingston, MT 59047<O></O>
<O></O>
Dear Mr. Hicks: <O></O>
<O></O>
This office received a memorandum from the Helena Flight Standards District Office on November 22, 1993, requesting a response to the following inquiry:<O></O>
<O></O>
Two pilots (one private and one commercial, neither of which is a CFI) are flying cross-country VFR taking turns flying under the hood. How does the safety pilot log his time since he is a required crew person under the regulations?<O></O>
<O></O>
The memorandum indicated that you presented this inquiry to the Helena FSDO, and the FSDO Manager requested that this office respond directly to you. Accordingly, the response to your inquiry is set forth below.<O></O>
<O></O>
Prior to providing a specific response to your inquiry, it is appropriate to note here the distinction between serving as PIC and logging PIC time. PIC, as defined in FAR 1.1, means the pilot responsible for the operation and safety of an aircraft during flight time. FAR 61.51 pertains to the logging of PIC flight time, and it provides that a private or commercial pilot may log as PIC time only that flight time during which he is the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which he is rated, or when he is the sole occupant of the aircraft, or when he acts as PIC of an aircraft on which more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft, or the regulations under which the flight is conducted.<O></O>
<O></O>
Therefore, while it is not possible for two pilots to act as PIC simultaneously, it is possible for two pilots to log PIC flight time simultaneously. PIC flight time may be logged by both the PIC responsible for the operation and safety of the aircraft during flight time in accordance with FAR 1.1, and the by the pilot who acts as the sole manipulator of the controls of the aircraft for which the pilot is rated under FAR 61.51.<O></O>
<O></O>
Responding specifically to your inquiry, the pilot that is under the hood may log PIC time for that time in which he is the sole manipulator of the controls of the aircraft, provided that he or she is rated for that aircraft. The appropriately rated safety pilot may concurrently log as second-in-command (SIC) that time during which he or she is acting as safety pilot.<O></O>
However, the two pilots may, prior to initiating the flight, agree that the safety pilot will be the PIC responsible for the operation and safety of the aircraft during the flight. If this is done, then the safety pilot may log all the flight time as PIC time in accordance with FAR 1.1 and the pilot under the hood may log, concurrently, all of the flight time during which he is the sole manipulator of the controls as PIC time in accordance with FAR 61.51(c)(2)(i). In order to assist you further in this regard, enclosed please find a prior FAA interpretation concerning the logging of flight time under simulated instrument flight conditions.<O></O>
<O></O>
I hope this response satisfactorily answers your questions.<O></O>
Sincerely,<O></O>
<O></O>
Philip Pompilio<O></O>
Staff Attorney<O></O>
FAA Regional Office<O></O>
Office of the Chief Counsel<O></O>

Another article explaining it better than I can.
http://www.eaa445.org/safetypilot.htm

 

[Ian_J]

Why cant I?

I'm terribly sorry. I saw "instrument" in your post and thought "IMC." I see you are just talking about standard simulated instrument safety pilot stuff. You are of course absolutely right.

Sorry for making you type so much stuff!

 

[mooneyguy]

So if I want to remain instrument current, and take a Safety Pilot along w/me, they can have as little as a private pilot's license, right?
OK, second question. I go up, shoot 6 approaches, do a hold, yada yada yada - I log it in my logbook. Does the safety pilot need to sign my book too, as proof that it was done? txs

NO, he does not sign your log book, but you do write his name down in it!