SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Not everybody spends all of their time on the internets. I expect experienced pilots to be aware of industry events, but I can't expect the same from noobs.
Might as well move to the Lav Now (Pop the Popcorn Out)
- Thread starter jhugz
- Start date
Not everybody spends all of their time on the internets. I expect experienced pilots to be aware of industry events, but I can't expect the same from noobs.
Then where do you draw the line at "experienced pilots"?
500TT?
1000TT?
5000TT?
15000TT?
-mini
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
5000TT-7000TT, however, lets be serious, just because you have experience doesn't mean you know or care anything about the various companies out there that may hire you, I know guys who would jump all over an opportunity at GoJet to become a direct entry captain, and they've spent all their time doing challenging difficult flying out in the sticks, do they have to be punished for it?
The difference is this: Gulfstream preys on people with low time. The company in this thread doesn't seem to care who gets on, they do it as a non-payed public service in a way. GoJet/Virgin/etc. are just like anyother company trying to get employees.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
In my experience, anyone who spent more than a year at the regionals knew the GoJet story, and that includes even the most apathetic pilots who have never once gotten on an internet forum, attended a union meeting, etc...
skydog
New Member
I don't see this as PFT/PFJ, at least not in the traditional sense. The planes are going to fly whether he is there or not. All that is happening here is that the Pt 135 guy gets a second set of eyes and hands in the cockpit, which is always a good thing, and on the empty legs the other guy gets to log some multi pilot-in-command time. No jobs are lost, the company brings in a little extra revenue, and the operations is a little safer with the addition of the second pilot.
That said, I don't see this as particularly valuable to the guy who is paying. Yes you get to log some time, but it doesn't seem to be the kind of time that anyone values. But, it's your money. Do with it what you want.
That said, I don't see this as particularly valuable to the guy who is paying. Yes you get to log some time, but it doesn't seem to be the kind of time that anyone values. But, it's your money. Do with it what you want.
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
There's the key, there's more than one way to get experienced.
inside0ut
Well-Known Member
I understand what you are saying, but its tough when you preach about who you respect and don't respect.
When you see the people who you worked with at Gulfstream, do you tell them that they brought the profession down by working there?
I doubt it.
Its hard to listen to your militant stance, all the while remembering that you at one time did the same. You kinda lose credibility. The "Do as I say, not as I have done" thing gets under my skin. I think it actually gets under alot of peoples skin.
Learn from the past, and help others along. Lord knows I have made my fair share of them, but looking back at the things I have done, I realize how easy it is to fall into those traps sometimes. Its laughable to hear people say that they would rather starve than provide for their family. I would eat crap for my family. Hell, I went to Mesa, so I guess in a way I kind of have.
I dont think anyone here would cross a picket line (thats a whole other can of worms and just wrong in every way), but ill bet that 99.9% of guys who go to GoJet/Gulfstream/any other PFT/PFJ dont know any better. So should they be judged for all time because of what they have done? Should we "make lists" and shun them forever? Should we deny them a job because of what they have done? Do you think when your resume comes infront of a hiring board, they should trash it just because you flew at Gulfstream?
I guess all im saying is tone it down, man. Alot of people would be more receptive to the message.
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
I cracked up when I read that, that's pretty funny, but make no mistake, you're doing the right thing, working hard, and trying to make ends meet, and feed the family, nothing more matters.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
No, I tell them that we brought the profession down by working there. Most of them agree.
You're free to have your opinion on the matter. As for me, I'll keep preaching the gospel alongside guys like Velo. We may not win the Mr. Congeniality award, but we'll at least get the message out there.
jhugz
Well-Known Member
You do get a message out...however it is tainted. It is tainted because of your delivery of the message. If you weren't belittling and insulting you could accomplish a lot more when presenting an idea.
tonyw
Well-Known Member
My personal opinion is that PCL and Velo call it like they see it. Some people can't handle it because it's not what they want to hear so they say they're being argumentative.
Tough noogies. That's like a woman getting pissed off if you tell her no, those pants do not make you look fat, your extra weight does.
If it's the truth and you can't handle the truth, that's your problem, not mine.
Tough noogies. That's like a woman getting pissed off if you tell her no, those pants do not make you look fat, your extra weight does.
If it's the truth and you can't handle the truth, that's your problem, not mine.
Well, to my way of thinking delivery certainly makes a difference. You will get different responses and much different results with different ways of presenting the same information. It is foolish to ignore the effect of presentation.
I can see a few different ways of handling the "do these pants make me look fat" question, none of which include lying, yet have a wide variation in outcomes. Tony's way sounds like it would pretty good at losing a friend (if she was one), making her angry, possibly hurting her feelings, maybe lowering her self esteem. If those are what you want to accomplish, then congratulations because you have a good probablity of accomplishing some or all. On the other hand if your goal is to elicit a change in her behavior to improve her health or looks, then I'd suggest taking a different approach.
I can see a few different ways of handling the "do these pants make me look fat" question, none of which include lying, yet have a wide variation in outcomes. Tony's way sounds like it would pretty good at losing a friend (if she was one), making her angry, possibly hurting her feelings, maybe lowering her self esteem. If those are what you want to accomplish, then congratulations because you have a good probablity of accomplishing some or all. On the other hand if your goal is to elicit a change in her behavior to improve her health or looks, then I'd suggest taking a different approach.
Flight81
OO BRO FO
So here is a question.... I went through the program at ATP to get my ratings and all that, and everyone knows that x-country time is about half safety pilot time. How do you recommend I log this in logbook pro? A new column for safety pilot PIC? Also I fly empty legs in a 310 for a 135 operation. I log that as PIC under the "sole manipulator" reg. I guess I need to add that as a new column too? Can someone pm me with advise on the best way to seperate these times. I don't want the hassel down the line during an interview of having to try and seperate these times.
jhugz
Well-Known Member
good stuff
inside0ut
Well-Known Member
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
Sometimes, the stuff they say is pretty inflammatory, about as inflammatory as telling your girlfriend she looks fat in those pants. "Calling it as they see it," doesn't need to include remarks that demean others, you can "call it as you see it," and still be professional and chill. Doug calls it as he sees it, however, most of the time it seems people don't notice because he's subtle about it.
As for the truth, there are many versions of it, and none of them may be right, and as for interpretation, when two people don't see eye to eye on an issue, its both of their problems, not "that guys an idiot because he doesn't agree with me."
This thread is pretty much hijacked, and rapidly starting to veer off course. Back on topic.
As for the guy who went to ATPs and has all of the SIC time, ehh, its up to you, I wouldn't even bother. I know a hell of a lot of guys from ATPs that logged all of that Safety Pilot time, and nobody seemed to bat an eye at their interviews. I think a lot of this has to do with how we think the interview process is going down, when really, for the last couple of years, at the regional level anyway there has been very very very little emphasis on this kind of stuff. Mesaba offered me an interview last year and I thought about going, I asked the HR lady what I needed to bring to the interview they said, "Yourself, a photocopy of your medical/pilotcertificate, a copy of the last page in your log book, and a smile." If you get on at a regional with 1000TT or so, by the time you get to a point where you can go to a major (DeltaWest/Continental/etc.) you'll have 5000-10000TT or so. Do you think your 250 ambiguous safety pilot hours are really going to matter? I doubt it. They're going to be more concerned about which airframes your typed in, how demanding your flying was, whether you have any incidents/accidents/LOIs etc. That's what you should be concerned about.
Put in a column for "Part 1 PIC". Everything 61.51 says can be logged as PIC goes into your PIC column. Every time you fly as PIC (according to part 1), you log it in the "Part 1 PIC" column.
If someone asks for your "PIC part 1" flight times, you'll have it easily. No need to have 10 different columns for it.
-mini
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
The message is to not do the same stupid crap I did.
That's the problem: people don't notice. I want people to notice. I'm tired of newbie pilots wanting to be coddled and told that they can do whatever they want to do. Some things are right, some things are wrong.