Might as well move to the Lav Now (Pop the Popcorn Out)

jhugz

#lighttwin Mafia
Ok so hear goes,

I had a conversation with the One Marine earlier and I greatly appreciate his opinion but I thought I would open this up to others.

Castle Aviation is a 135 cargo company out of KAKR that operates caravans, aerostars, and a cheyenne II. Well they offer an SIC program. Yeah Yeah I know but I am in a rock and a hard place. I have not found a job flight instructing in the past 3 months. Family is riding me hard and this is something I talked over with them and they are ok with. Now is this justifiable or not?

A little about the program:

You are a box during the 135 legs. You don't do anything and you don't log anything. On the 91 legs you are the PIC. You log PIC, Turbine, etc. It is a great op. to build turbine and multi time. My friend is doing it right now and having a blast. He doesn't have much but good things to say about the company and workforce. You have to pay for a 135 SIC checkout but you are able to build unlimited hours. Which for me is better then paying for currency all the time.

Hit me up with the advice people and thanks in advance for the constructive criticism.

jhugz
 

DeltaAVL

New Member
I don't see this as anything but good intention by the company. They only need one pilot per aircraft, but they're offering that extra pilot seat to pilots who may be able to use the extra time to their advantage..

With that said, I, personally, probably wouldn't go for it. ;)
 

youngflyer

Well-Known Member
I don't see this as anything but good intention by the company. They only need one pilot per aircraft, but they're offering that extra pilot seat to pilots who may be able to use the extra time to their advantage..

With that said, I, personally, probably wouldn't go for it. ;)
Or possibly because the customers want 2 pilots sitting up front...
 

jtrain609

Uniting the black vote.
Complete scam, the TPIC won't mean anything to the airlines.

Further, this doesn't line up. If you're a box on the 135 legs, why the 135 SIC check? You don't need a checkout to fly any of those aircraft part 91, so why the checkout? Amflight had a program where there were SIC's on some legs, and had a legit part 135 SIC check out and would therefor SIC time legally on every leg.

Also, you may want to consider that if you don't understand the legality of the time, and why this is fishy you probably shouldn't do it.
 

CoffeeIcePapers

Well-Hung Member
Complete scam, the TPIC won't mean anything to the airlines.

Further, this doesn't line up. If you're a box on the 135 legs, why the 135 SIC check? You don't need a checkout to fly any of those aircraft part 91, so why the checkout? Amflight had a program where there were SIC's on some legs, and had a legit part 135 SIC check out and would therefor SIC time legally on every leg.

Also, you may want to consider that if you don't understand the legality of the time, and why this is fishy you probably shouldn't do it.
He may be mistaken, go easy on him.
 

BajtheJino

I'm looking at you.
Theres nothing fishy about the logging empty legs. What is fishy is paying for a job. Paying for a job is lowest of the low. Why not hit Gulfstream up or some other dirt bag outfit.
Besides, I believe I would rather be a greater at WalMart than pay for a job.
 

jhugz

#lighttwin Mafia
Theres nothing fishy about the logging empty legs. What is fishy is paying for a job. Paying for a job is lowest of the low. Why not hit Gulfstream up or some other dirt bag outfit.
Besides, I believe I would rather be a greater at WalMart than pay for a job.
Because it is unlimited flight time for 2500 dollars. Not 200 hours for 27G's or whatever it is. Also I am not required to be there. The Hondo needs the second pilot...I am not jacking a job from someone else so personally I don't see a problem with it.
 

jtrain609

Uniting the black vote.
Again, why do you need the 135 SIC check? If you're not logging that time, then why do you need it?

You can sit in the right seat just fine without that check, and then fly the part 91 legs.
 

jhugz

#lighttwin Mafia
Complete scam, the TPIC won't mean anything to the airlines.

Further, this doesn't line up. If you're a box on the 135 legs, why the 135 SIC check? You don't need a checkout to fly any of those aircraft part 91, so why the checkout? Amflight had a program where there were SIC's on some legs, and had a legit part 135 SIC check out and would therefor SIC time legally on every leg.

Also, you may want to consider that if you don't understand the legality of the time, and why this is fishy you probably shouldn't do it.
I am not 100% on this so don't go bonkers on me but I am pretty sure the SIC checkout allows duty time to be extended. It is a legit SIC 135 checkout however I don't think that any of their legs right now qualify for it.

Secondly how is this different then buying 100 hours of multi from Ari ben @ 10k. First off it is a quarter of the price and secondly you are flying faster more complex equipment in icing, weather, etc.

Keep it commin'
 

OldTownPilot

Well-Known Member
And because they don't need you there, and your 200 pounds of dead weight could be used to haul freight at any time, the 'program' could be 'cancelled' at anytime, thus not getting you 'unlimited' flight time for whatever you paid for it.
 

jhugz

#lighttwin Mafia
Again, why do you need the 135 SIC check? If you're not logging that time, then why do you need it?

You can sit in the right seat just fine without that check, and then fly the part 91 legs.
All of their training is done in house. You work 1 on 1 with the CP for 20 hours and then do one training flight that isn't a run...you go out with the CP just to do some maneuvers and a couple APP. You then fly a trip with the CP which somewhere in he takes the time to do the maneuvers and APP.
 

jtrain609

Uniting the black vote.
I am not 100% on this so don't go bonkers on me but I am pretty sure the SIC checkout allows duty time to be extended. It is a legit SIC 135 checkout however I don't think that any of their legs right now qualify for it.

Secondly how is this different then buying 100 hours of multi from Ari ben @ 10k. First off it is a quarter of the price and secondly you are flying faster more complex equipment in icing, weather, etc.

Keep it commin'
Nope, doesn't make sense. You can't go more than 16 hours no matter what under part 135.

You need to get more info about this because you're either not being told everything, or you're not understanding what you're being told. Without more accurate data, there's little we can do here.

Again, this sounds like a complete scam.
 

jtrain609

Uniting the black vote.
All of their training is done in house. You work 1 on 1 with the CP for 20 hours and then do one training flight that isn't a run...you go out with the CP just to do some maneuvers and a couple APP. You then fly a trip with the CP which somewhere in he takes the time to do the maneuvers and APP.
What kind of a check is it? 135 IFR or VFR SIC?
 

jhugz

#lighttwin Mafia
And because they don't need you there, and your 200 pounds of dead weight could be used to haul freight at any time, the 'program' could be 'cancelled' at anytime, thus not getting you 'unlimited' flight time for whatever you paid for it.
True...but my friend has been there for 3 months and not once has been bumped off due to weight. I think somewhere in the fine print they guarantee 200-300 but they have always let you stay on for longer.
 

jhugz

#lighttwin Mafia
Nope, doesn't make sense. You can't go more than 16 hours no matter what under part 135.

You need to get more info about this because you're either not being told everything, or you're not understanding what you're being told. Without more accurate data, there's little we can do here.

Again, this sounds like a complete scam.
This is all second hand as of right now...I will be having a chat with the CP tomorrow. Just wanted some opinions before going in there.
 

KLB

Well-Known Member
I wouldn't do it. You're a commercial pilot now. Get paid to fly. I know times are tough out there. I was in the same situation you're in now in the spring of 2005. I would spend my money getting my MEI over this "time building" ploy. Have you tried traffic watch, pipeline patrol, aerial survey, and etc....? I'd do something outside of flying until I was able to get a paying flying gig before I did this "time building" ploy.
 

bdhill1979

Gone West
NTSB Report

To me the test is this:

Are you a required crewmember either by regulation, are you required by the insurance company, or are you required by the paying customer.

In all three cases somebody is not getting a paying job.

I know a guy that did the Amflight SIC program, with about 1100 total and 300 hours of "Turbine PIC" no airline will hire him.
 

sharkey

kind of a big deal
Like KLB said times are tough right now. Is there a chance for this to turn into a left seat job in the near future? If the plane would go without you in it then I don't think you're taking paying work away from someone else. So, unlike KLB, I'd say go for it. If thats what it takes to get you foot in the door then do it.
If it's just a "time building ploy" then I can see how in an interview later on down the road the hours in your logbook would be hard to justify.
my $.02
 
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