Zero to Hero Concept

Ian J said:
I had no idea you trained professional pilots... thanks for the insight. When you've trained CRJ pilots what were some of the things you noticed that were different between 300 and 1200 hour pilots?
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The 300 hour pilot is still fresh at the game but still can be taught in the CRJ the same as in a 172. If that is what he wants to fly then why not let him learn in a CRJ instead of a 172? Now, when he gets to 1200 in the CRJ would he not be better qualified than the 1200 guy just fresh out of a 172?

Personally, I'm on a different fork in the road in aviation and have no desire to fly liners. I just question the path to it when it comes up in a topic like this and view both sides, excuse me for butting in. So question still is what is the difference of learning this in a CRJ or 172? Simple PIC time is the answer...hum, Okey dokey if ya say so.
 
jynxyjoe said:
I think you'll find many pilots do not believe that the airlines are a good place to come to learn the fundamentals.
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But what does that mean? The fundamentals of calling maintenance about a broken APU during during the first week on the CRJ? Or fundamentals as being able to pick up a clearance or knowing how to land an airplane? The real question is experience making decisions. One could argue though that you don't really make any decisions at least officially as a 300 hour SIC.
 
splash said:
The 300 hour pilot is still fresh at the game but still can be taught in the CRJ the same as in a 172. If that is what he wants to fly then why not let him learn in a CRJ instead of a 172? Now, when he gets to 1200 in the CRJ would he not be better qualified than the 1200 guy just fresh out of a 172?

Personally, I'm on a different fork in the road in aviation and have no desire to fly liners. I just question the path to it when it comes up in a topic like this and view both sides, excuse me for butting in. So question still is what is the difference of learning this in a CRJ or 172? Simple PIC time is the answer...hum, Okey dokey if ya say so.
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I really don't know. I've never flown a transport category plane nor have I trained anyone to do so.

However, experienced airline pilots, including those who are check airmen, tend to mostly say the more experience one has before hitting a 121 the better. Most tend to agree 300 hours is on the low side.

Personally, I'll leave it to experts.
 
Ian J said:
I really don't know. I've never flown a transport category plane nor have I trained anyone to do so.

However, experienced airline pilots, including those who are check airmen, tend to mostly say the more experience one has before hitting a 121 the better. Most tend to agree 300 hours is on the low side.

Personally, I'll leave it to experts.
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I dig what you said here.
 
Socal321 said:
But what does that mean? The fundamentals of calling maintenance about a broken APU during during the first week on the CRJ? Or fundamentals as being able to pick up a clearance or knowing how to land an airplane? The real question is experience making decisions. One could argue though that you don't really make any decisions at least officially as a 300 hour SIC.
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The problem is the 300hr pilot has little to no previous experience in order to offer the Captain an opinion on a particular course of action. With a 300hr SIC, the Captain is making all the decisions without any relevant input. With an experienced SIC, the Captain can use the SIC's experience in order to come up with the best decision.
 
A-300F4-622R said:
The problem is the 300hr pilot has little to no previous experience in order to offer the Captain an opinion on a particular course of action. With a 300hr SIC, the Captain is making all the decisions without any relevant input. With an experienced SIC, the Captain can use the SIC's experience in order to come up with the best decision.
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YEP!
 
Socal321 said:
But what does that mean? The fundamentals of calling maintenance about a broken APU during during the first week on the CRJ? Or fundamentals as being able to pick up a clearance or knowing how to land an airplane? The real question is experience making decisions. One could argue though that you don't really make any decisions at least officially as a 300 hour SIC.
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Fundamentals of the swiss cheese model for the pilots slice i guess is the easiest way to put it.

<....I started writing and writing, I got through the 4th paragraph and realized I was rambling. Simply put, when I went to my second company with +2k hours and 1k already in 121 ops I realized how badly the 300 wonders were in need of experience. A view magnified when I went flying with one of them bringing back a bird from a heavy check and got a red light (he caused) and his reactions and choice of continuing a profile was so bizarre it convinced me they don't belong in a cockpit of even a Saab. A point I'm sure the ASAP committee pressed on him...>
 
A-300F4-622R said:
The problem is the 300hr pilot has little to no previous experience in order to offer the Captain an opinion on a particular course of action. With a 300hr SIC, the Captain is making all the decisions without any relevant input. With an experienced SIC, the Captain can use the SIC's experience in order to come up with the best decision.
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+1
 
A-300F4-622R said:
The problem is the 300hr pilot has little to no previous experience in order to offer the Captain an opinion on a particular course of action. With a 300hr SIC, the Captain is making all the decisions without any relevant input. With an experienced SIC, the Captain can use the SIC's experience in order to come up with the best decision.
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So well put. The cockpit of a transport aircraft is not the place to be getting extensive training. As a First Officer you are there to assist the Captain with the safe operation of the flight. At 300 hrs there is not much assistance you can give. Jeff Skiles was an experienced pilot who assisted his captain in an emergency situation. What a fantastic result! I don't want someone next to me who cannot asist me. This is a required crew member for a reason.
 
A-300F4-622R said:
The problem is the 300hr pilot has little to no previous experience in order to offer the Captain an opinion on a particular course of action. With a 300hr SIC, the Captain is making all the decisions without any relevant input. With an experienced SIC, the Captain can use the SIC's experience in order to come up with the best decision.
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I've been talking around this idea for a long time.

I could never summarize it and put it so succinctly. Well done.

I'm also of the mindset, it's not just the TT, but the breadth of experience that make a difference as well. Actually, that's probably more important, as is maximizing the time when in command to make decisions appropriately.
 
Polar742 said:
I've been talking around this idea for a long time.

I could never summarize it and put it so succinctly. Well done.

I'm also of the mindset, it's not just the TT, but the breadth of experience that make a difference as well. Actually, that's probably more important, as is maximizing the time when in command to make decisions appropriately.
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Very true. You need experience in all weather conditions flying as many types of aircraft, day and night, as possible. I want someone next to me that's "been there, done that."
 
A-300F4-622R said:
The problem is the 300hr pilot has little to no previous experience in order to offer the Captain an opinion on a particular course of action. With a 300hr SIC, the Captain is making all the decisions without any relevant input. With an experienced SIC, the Captain can use the SIC's experience in order to come up with the best decision.
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300Hr SIC + PIC = Single Pilot

Ask me how I know? I was in the 1900C at 500TT and wasn't ready to be an effective SIC.
 
Socal321 said:
Ironically enough most of the low timers went into tprops. I still don't get that training wise. At least an RJ will yell at you if you do something wrong.:D
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Well, truthfully at my airline, during the time of my hiring, they were tossing the low time guys into the jets and the high time guys into the T-props. Couple months after that, however, things changed and all we were staffing were the jets, and it kinda bounced around ever since.

Managements honest opinion was keep the low time guys in the jet and make them throw the autopilot on at 600ft. We had a lot of trouble with jet guys coming to the saab as CA. I think some of it was not taking it seriously, a lot of the instructors I talked to said it was like watching a monkey hump a football when it came to flying the sim.

I'm not a sim instructor, I just get to hear the stories.

In my experience I saw most low time guys goto jets as a whole. At this company it was hit or miss.
 
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