Are we still on about this...
Let it go man...let it go...
Fly airplanes, cash check, drink bourbon...it's not that bloody hard. (Right, @Derg )
Most of us on this website have had to step up and put our foot down. It happens. Usually what happens is the CA had something else going on and thanked us later.
Also, a lot of us who have been CAs before have also had FOs save our bacon, and for that we're very grateful.
And a lot of us have had FOs be a right seat CA or cop an attitude.
If the guy asks you to do something that doesn't violate SOP, EVEN IF what you're doing doesn't violate SOP just do it.
On my previous plane, I was an instructor. Online, I was just a regular FO. So if the boss said do ADC when I planned EFG, I just did it as long ad it was safe. The guy wanted me to dive down and truck along burning an extra 2 tons of gas? Fine. I'm not going to get hurt, I'm not going to get violated, I didn't sign the book. Maybe there's a reason from his previous experiences in this situation or it's not understanding what the machine wants. As my 9 year old says, "WutEvs". NMFP.
If he's specifically telling you to violate a company procedure, that's one thing. If he's just telling you to use a certain technique that isn't violating company procedure, then you need to do what he says.
This ain't complicated.
Pulling boards out when we were as slow as we were, with the green line inching up on the speed tape....no thank you. Look at the banana bar. We are going to make the altitude charted on an ILS, but this is a visual approach. Also, SOP is now to fly SmartCI, unless there are mitigating factors. He rode the pole the entire trip. Why do we need to go .82/.83? If company wants me to go .74, I'll happily go .74.
Good grief, dude, it's an easy frickin' job. You show up, you move the airplane from Point A to Point B, and you go home/to the hotel. It ain't rocket surgery, and it doesn't require all this drama. El Jefe signed for the airplane, so if he wants to fly at .82, you fly at .82. Arguing about it or getting upset just turns an easy job into a stressful one. Set the thrust levers for .82, put your feet up, and read a magazine.
Not sure what I could have done differently. Thoughts?
See, this is why I always fly single pilot, depart VFR, cancel with the airport in sight, and raise the flaps in the flare. 121 doesn't mean one to one. It equals 4; Three votes for the CA, one for the FO.Oh I was very diplomatic with the captain. But I'm quickly loosing my patience with this discussion. Being called insubordinate for flying standard is beyond ridiculous. Do you realize how that sounds. Calling someone to the carpet for following the rules set forth by the company you work for?
99.8% of the time, I do it exactly like you just described. This was the only time I've ever told the captain " your leg home." It was the last leg home. I had been micromanaged the entire 4 day, and had had enough. What's somewhat comical about the whole thing, is there was another captain I was chatting with before the trip, and my captain walked up and introduced himself and joined in on the conversation. "You don't need to worry about this guy, he'll keep you out of trouble" was what he said about me. Made me feel good. After day two, I felt like I couldn't do anything right. And by day for, I was done. Which is why I have him the last leg. Bm very vocal up front. "This is my plan... This is why I'm doing this...etc." I never had a chance with this guy. He was also the kind of guy who, so I've been told, is consistently unstable below '500, FO's have called for the go around, and he continues. One if our "Fab Five" from what I'm told. I honestly have no clue who most of them are. I'll fly a trip with anyone, except two guys. The first one cussed me out for asking him, as a new FO, if we were going to make a speed restriction, and locked the door at the gate after I opened it to chew my ass some more. We have one guy who likes to instruct on the flight deck. He's on a lot of peoples list. I love flying with him because I always learn something. Plus, we have a good time together.
But everyone has their limit. I had reached mine. So, I relented control, in what I thought was a very tactful, respectful way. I asked what I was doing wrong, he couldn't give me a solid answer, so I backed off, and let him get us home.
Not sure what I could have done differently. Thoughts?
I just browsed this thread and I'll add this to the discussion. There are a number of airlines worldwide that require the use of autothrottles at all times. As autopilot and autothrottle systems have improved to the point that the ride stays quite smooth with them on, the argument that it is better to turn them off goes out the window.
The increase in safety and reduction of required mental capacity, i.e. increase in situational awareness, in a busy ATC environment means having them on is probably a smarter decision. Many airline managers will state that you are being paid to fly the passengers from point A to point B in the safest manner possible. By turning the automation off in order to "practice" your hand flying you are not holding to their desired level of safety. They will state that you can practice your hand flying during recurrent simulator training. In the United States you are actually quite lucky to have a liberal policy with the use of automation.
Some airlines have a policy that you can only turn the autothrottles off if the autopilot is also off. The logic being that if you have the autopilot on and the autothrottles off you may forget what your automation level is in a high workload environment. In other words it is a mixed automation situation. Everything is either on or it's off, not some combination of the two.
So before condemning the captain perhaps it would be better to understand where he is coming from with his request. To me it sounds quite likely he is in the camp of the last paragraph.
Typhoonpilot
Yup, and it wasn't a US airline that crashed at SFO because the pilots didn't know the status of the ATs. The last paragraph policy you mention doesn't exist at my shop. AT can be turned off with AP on or with AP off.
When crap hits the fan, I hope the people up front are pilots. Not button pushers.
I'll just leave this here:https://gma.yahoo.com/plane-stalls-...-altitude-072100516--abc-news-topstories.html
Outcomes.
Media fail...............
Airline pilots almost universally pull when the altimeter starts unwinding and the shaker/pusher come on.I'll just leave this here:https://gma.yahoo.com/plane-stalls-...-altitude-072100516--abc-news-topstories.html
Outcomes.
Why the distinction? Of all people(what do you mean YOU PEOPLE?) I would think would do what they're trained from their first flight lesson.Airline pilots almost universally pull when the altimeter starts unwinding and the shaker/pusher come on.