You're the Dispatcher

BeReal

BeReal

Well-Known Member
I'm fresh out of school and waiting to land my first dispatch job. I really miss the concentrated studying and intense learning. I've read everything on this sub-forum and wish there were more posts of scenarios and discussions that I could learn from like the ones in the "You're the Captain" sub-forum. (I've read all of those too.)

I've been watching the youtube videos about "Why Planes Crash" and trying to learn from them, but they make my palms sweat.

I know there's a wealth of experience here that I can learn from. C'mon folks, tell me the biggest lesson you've learned in your career, your biggest surprise, what you wished you knew when you started, your most difficult decision, the best decision you ever made, your best day, your worst day. Anyone have a real-life scenario they want to debate? Does it ever bug you that you can't prove that your unpopular decision to delay a flight (because it was the safe thing to do) was the right one? Surely captains aren't the only people with an interesting story or complex decision. (I know; I'm shamelessly baiting you now.)

Let the discussion begin (please?).
 
All of mine are due to WX or Maint. But the more experience you get the more you should trust your inner voices. But all in all If it does not fell right dont go, your life is not worth the pay.
 
Never ever release a crew due to a mechanical problem. Usually right after you do the airplane is fixed.

Couple of things always plan ahead and have a good idea what you want to do if you have to divert.

Dont think the Captain knows everything, They have alot on their mind when they are talking to you so they can make mistakes. It is your job to make sure they have the right info.
 
Make sure you don't screw that 3585 thing up 6 months from now when you have to do it the first time. Read Metars and TAF's daily of course, but make sure you read those notams and call those bastards up when the abbreviations are whatever they felt like doing today. If I remember right section 5 of your AIM has some of those abbreviations but the clowns at the airport don't know what the AIM is.

Ask lots of questions of your peers.

Some things I thought were funny over the years (keep in mind this was a little in '02, '03-'04):

If you dispatch overseas sometimes "SOME OF RUNWAY SURFACE MAY BE COVERED WITH LION DUNG" means exactly what it says it does... LION and DUNG are not cute 4 letter abbreviations. :)

Yes, there are ETOPS requirements for four engine aircraft. Yes I know what it stands for, yes I'm serious, weirdest title for an FAR considering.

JFK: MU INOP SAAB BROKE, they apparently use a little SAAB car for the MU reporting, I thought it was some sort of Surface aircraft something something.
 
jynxyjoe said:
If you dispatch overseas sometimes "SOME OF RUNWAY SURFACE MAY BE COVERED WITH LION DUNG" means exactly what it says it does... LION and DUNG are not cute 4 letter abbreviations. :)
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We actually just started some service to Africa this week. No word about lion dung yet, but we've already had some adventures...the building that the releases were printed out in burned down, so we're having to email the paperwork to the station manager temporarily. Ah, international dispatch, you are never dull.
 
manniax said:
We actually just started some service to Africa this week. No word about lion dung yet, but we've already had some adventures...the building that the releases were printed out in burned down, so we're having to email the paperwork to the station manager temporarily. Ah, international dispatch, you are never dull.
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(I believe) Cathy still does a flight back and forth from the Ivory coast every 3rd day which start somewhere in Central Europe, lands in this crappy strip in the IC, waits for 5 hours while the locals pick and pack containers of fruit, and then flies back up. They tanker gas and the release prints from the single printer in a 30mile radius, the flight crew brings its own paper.
 
While I am still waiting on my first gig somewhere, I find this thread quite informative. I will contribute once I become employed somewhere.
Kudos to BeReal for thinking of it:clap:
 
manniax said:
We actually just started some service to Africa this week. No word about lion dung yet, but we've already had some adventures...the building that the releases were printed out in burned down, so we're having to email the paperwork to the station manager temporarily. Ah, international dispatch, you are never dull.
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To quote my a sales guy in a former life "Africa is a gold mine!" Shortly there after a "reputable" customer stopped payment and we had to operate trips for free (which we got in trouble with the DOT for doing as a supplemental carrier doing public charters... right after we got in trouble for not returning the passengers who we hadn't been paid to return... damned if you do, etc). Just wait till you cxl a flight and the station manger has to leave via the office window to not be beaten down by the rioting mob. It happened (DNMM). Or when your crew gets mugged and has all their money taken.. by a police officer.

jynxyjoe said:
(I believe) Cathy still does a flight back and forth from the Ivory coast every 3rd day which start somewhere in Central Europe, lands in this crappy strip in the IC, waits for 5 hours while the locals pick and pack containers of fruit, and then flies back up. They tanker gas and the release prints from the single printer in a 30mile radius, the flight crew brings its own paper.
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Former life did charters for a euro cargo carrier, had to send round trip flight plans... for 6 legs. Went home and came back the next day, airplane was on leg 4. Even with the crew change, we could find "reliable" printers to send fight plans.

BeReal said:
:rotfl: Who do you call to ask if it's wet or dry?
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Depends on if there's a "sheen" on it or not. The lion dung doesn't worry me as much as the possibility of there actually being a lion on the runway.

The fun thing about this job is the variety of situations you find yourself in. But, there's also a ton of random questions you never thought you'd have to deal with "Captains in jail for not paying a prostitute, are still planning to leave on time?" "What should we do with our bags since the hold is full?" Or crew: "Is there going to be a Cat 2 approach open for our arrival in ATL? I saw a lot of notams for approaches out" me: " Not sure sir, didn't check with weather not requiring an Alternate and all. Standby I'll double check." Crew: "We just finished de icing and we need to know our holdover time" Me:" OK not a problem, what type of precip do you have?" Crew "It snowed earlier today, but the last couple hours its been clear skies and no precip.. so what's our holdover time?"... Me: "seriously?"

or my favorite, working for a carrier that 70% of the flying was military contracts, a crew called and wantd me to send Jepps for Hickam air force base. They didn't have them on board. Me "You know that's HNL right?" Crew "Yes but we need HIK plates." Me "Well, you know HNL and HIK are the same airport right?" Crew "Yeah, but we don't have any HIK plates." Me "Yes, because they're the same as HNL so...." Crew "So we're ok to go to HIK and use HNL plates?" Me "Absolutely...". In all fairness though, I've heard of dispatchers releasing a flight to HIK with HNL as the alternate.

Remember, the crews have a lot going on and sometimes get a bit of tunnel vision and can't see the forest for the trees. Minimal condescension is appreciated, but so very hard.
 
Biggest lesson: Only believe a fraction of what airline management tells you. The vast majority simply hold a title because they said "yes", and their technical knowledge and dispatching advice should be taken about as seriously as if it came from Carrot Top. Just to be safe - believe none of what you hear and half of what you see.

Biggest surprise: It's a tie between showing up for my first non-union dispatch job and finding out they would not give me health insurance as promised, or when I got upgraded at my second non-union dispatch job and my pay was far less than promised.

What I wished I knew when I started: See "biggest lesson" above.

Most difficult decision: Declaring an emergency for a flight and diverting to the nearest suitable alternate when it was strictly a judgement call, but most likely the safest course of action.

Best decision: Submitting my resume for my current job when I hadn't yet met the experience requirements and was told not to by my peers, who by the way didn't get the job.

Best day: Fam trip - will not discuss in public.

Worst day: Waking up to see the news footage of one of our 747-400's burning wreckage, in a city that I had turned a 747-400 over to my relief at the end of my shift, and hearing there were no survivors.

I would like to debate the new B044 redispatch procedures and whether the weather and notams actually has to be part of the amended release, and if so why.

It does not bug me when my safety-based decisions are second guessed by management anymore than my dog barking at a squirrel. Neither one knows any better, and they're both doing what they're supposed to do. At the end of the day the only proof I need to satisfy any self-doubt as to whether or not I did the right thing is a plane safely parked at an airport and everybody that had been onboard is still breathing.

I don't feel baited and this is good dialogue to have for everyone, both new and not-so-new to the profession.
 
jynxyjoe said:
(I believe) Cathy still does a flight back and forth from the Ivory coast every 3rd day which start somewhere in Central Europe, lands in this crappy strip in the IC, waits for 5 hours while the locals pick and pack containers of fruit, and then flies back up. They tanker gas and the release prints from the single printer in a 30mile radius, the flight crew brings its own paper.
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Speaking of paper, I have heard that the flight crews are having to take along their own toilet paper for the trip, since there is none provided there - this is just a rumor. I know that we have to have guards for the airplane during layovers as well has having guards escort the flight crews to and from the hotel. On the positive side, it should be easy to non-rev there if I'm ever up for an adventure.
 
jynxyjoe said:
Make sure you don't screw that 3585 thing up 6 months from now when you have to do it the first time. Read Metars and TAF's daily of course, but make sure you read those notams and call those bastards up when the abbreviations are whatever they felt like doing today. If I remember right section 5 of your AIM has some of those abbreviations but the clowns at the airport don't know what the AIM is.

Ask lots of questions of your peers.
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Best advice yet. Your coworkers will help you but you're an adult; speak up and ask questions if you don't understand something.
 
We were doing a sub-service for Air Afrique. Other than some of our flights we carried 6 figures in cash for handling fees.

The folks in that part of the world (remember this was 20 years ago) had never seen an aircraft lav nor its purpose. Also they cooked their food in the aisle. No joke, brought out the habachi grill and fired it up.

Needles to say customs was not impressed when the acft came back to the US. Company just ripped out the interior and burned it all, it was cheaper - then proceeded to totally sterilize the airplane.
 
69beers said:
Biggest lesson: Only believe a fraction of what airline management tells you. The vast majority simply hold a title because they said "yes", and their technical knowledge and dispatching advice should be taken about as seriously as if it came from Carrot Top. Just to be safe - believe none of what you hear and half of what you see.
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Working for my first "major" I've found this to be true. The former (and smaller) lives were the opposite, good management (at least immediate management) who were very knowledgeable.. enough that I still keep in touch for certain questions that arise. That's probably been the biggest adjustment in the career...

Best day: Fam trip - will not discuss in public.
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Hahahaha, just one of them?

I would like to debate the new B044 redispatch procedures and whether the weather and notams actually has to be part of the amended release, and if so why.
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Playing domestic only i haven't read the rewrite... but.. are wx and notams required with the original dispatch release? You could argue that the redispatch would seemingly now require everything the original required. Then again, here's no requirement to compute an original dispatch release within 2 hours of departure... some mgr types i know work there's up a day ahead so they won't get behind working a desk. I don't understand the FAA's hard on to change this procedure... I'm not aware of airplanes falling out of the sky due to lack of fuel on redispatch plans.

It does not bug me when my safety-based decisions are second guessed by management anymore than my dog barking at a squirrel. Neither one knows any better, and they're both doing what they're supposed to do. At the end of the day the only proof I need to satisfy any self-doubt as to whether or not I did the right thing is a plane safely parked at an airport and everybody that had been onboard is still breathing.

I don't feel baited and this is good dialogue to have for everyone, both new and not-so-new to the profession.
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MY biggest peeve these days is the attitude i get when saying "that airplane can't operate for this reason" (no ice, no vis moisture, whatever...). It's like i'm being accused of trying to screw the company when I say no, that's illegal or unsafe.

The worst night I think I can remember was when a customer we did a lot of ACMI flying for (Vanguard) was going to cease operations, and the duty managers I'd worked closely with out there were all out of work in a few hours, and none of them knew. We were told hours before they announced to their employees so we could move our planes and parts out before the padlocks and chains went on the doors, and were instructed not to tell them why we were re-poing airplanes suddenly.

F9DXER said:
We were doing a sub-service for Air Afrique. Other than some of our flights we carried 6 figures in cash for handling fees.

The folks in that part of the world (remember this was 20 years ago) had never seen an aircraft lav nor its purpose. Also they cooked their food in the aisle. No joke, brought out the habachi grill and fired it up.

Needles to say customs was not impressed when the acft came back to the US. Company just ripped out the interior and burned it all, it was cheaper - then proceeded to totally sterilize the airplane.
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Ahhh the Hajj. I've heard those stories from crews.
 
F9DXER said:
We were doing a sub-service for Air Afrique. Other than some of our flights we carried 6 figures in cash for handling fees..
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We still do this practice when flying charters into Africa, certain middle east airports and South America. We have to teach our captains how to negotiate down there in order to keep them from giving away all our $ lol. Plus, you would be amazed how many customs officials around the world will just straight up ask for cash money in order to release a MX part for a broke airplane.
 
McCrosky said:
MY biggest peeve these days is the attitude i get when saying "that airplane can't operate for this reason" (no ice, no vis moisture, whatever...). It's like i'm being accused of trying to screw the company when I say no, that's illegal or unsafe.
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You know, this was my only concern about this career move. I don't have a problem putting my foot down, but knowing the small profit margin of most air carriers, it would get old if all I got in return for making my best and safest judgment call is grief. I'm sure everyone's experience is different depending on management. I would just really have a problem working for a company that put profit over safety.

I have more positive reactions to many of your comments, like the advice about trusting my instincts, but for the life of me, I can't figure out how y'all insert quotes from multiple sources.

I'm learning a lot from everyone's input. Thanks!
 
I've been on both sides of the fence as a Pt 121 DX'er for 4 years and a Pt 121 pilot for 6 yrs. Here is a list I could think of :
1. It's joint responsibility. Some pilots want to lay all the decision making on the dispatchers or vice verse, make all the choices themselves. As a pilot, my biggest pet peeve is when I'm in the air and I hear other crews calling DX on the radio saying "Hey DX, we're holding at XYZ, EFC time of 2120Z with 10ooolbs of fuel, WHAT DO YOU WANT US TO DO!" I hate that because then they're dumping all the decision making in your lap.

2. MEL's, typically a MX Controller is in the same room as the DX'ers. Stay up to date on MEL's. I have seen MEL's still listed in the system even though they were fixed 3-4 days ago.

3. Do not shaft the next DXer taking over your shift. Be as proactive as possible. Give both the crews and next DX'er as much info as possible. I have seen a fellow dispatcher launch all her flights to the hub, no extra fuel, no notes in the weather about the level 3-4 thunderstorms between their departure and destination airports. The next DXer had 6 flights divert because of that.

4. Some SOC managers are hell bent with on time performance. Never compromise safety just so the company can get an on time departure.

5. Stay current on aircraft systems and the operating procedures.

6. At times the gate will contact you to complain about crews, on time departures and what not. Some gate agents have the tendency to think that they're the ones in operational control. Be polite and remind him/her who is really in control. Here are two examples I've had: In PIT we had a passenger make hand gestures and saying "Ka-Boom!" to other passengers. Captain tossed him off the plane. Five minutes later we have the gate agent trying to tell us that he was just joking around, and that he was to be placed back on the airplane. The police got involved and he never got back on the plane, amazingly enough, she's still an agent. The second one we were in DTW, someone had told the gate agent where the MGTOW was on the release. Well she took it upon herself to determine if we were going to be over weight, told the commuting tjumpseater that we were weight restricted (after we told her that we'd be fine on weight) and sent him away.

My best day, there were several days where the weather was so perfect all over the country, that I cut all my releases in the first hour I was there and just played flight follower. Also when we had bad thunderstorms en-route to the destinations, I would constantly give wx updates and suggest headings to get around the storms all via ACARS. Some of the crews were very thankful for the updates that they brought us dinner or booze......for after our shift of course :D

My worst day. Six airplanes stuck in SDF and LEX due to a massive ice storm. I think we cancelled something like 75% of our flights because that was almost half of our fleet.

Funny event. Our mx base was in South Bend, IN. One of our flights gets into SBN and then the gate agent calls me to get new paperwork because of the aircraft swap. Completely confused, since they were supposed to do a quick turn, I call the captain on his cell phone and ask him what's going on. He had no idea what I was talking about and goes inside to the gate to find out whats going on. Turns out the Flight Attendant was having problems opening the main cabin door, so she took it upon herself to make an aircraft swap and then she "wrote the airplane up". She wrote a note to the head of MX and told him what was wrong with it. Needless to say, she was placed on suspension because of that little stunt she pulled.
 
izanti said:
We still do this practice when flying charters into Africa, certain middle east airports and South America. We have to teach our captains how to negotiate down there in order to keep them from giving away all our $ lol. Plus, you would be amazed how many customs officials around the world will just straight up ask for cash money in order to release a MX part for a broke airplane.
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Be very careful about releasing private information on publicly viewed forums. Whether true or untrue, you are opening up your company to major amount of liability with statements like these.
 
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