Your airline and Military leave

blee256

blee256

Well-Known Member
How does your airline deal with guard/reservists for their drill weekends? At pinnacle we are docked 2.5 hours for everyday we have military leave! So in essence my guarantee every month is 70 hours because i have drill one weekend a month.

The way it works is if they insert the mil leave days into pref bid before our sched is made, pref bid will schedule around your mil days which is great, but we get docked 2.5 hours for each day. even tho its basically an off day!

You can PM me, if you dont want to announce what airline you work for. But I would like to know, so I can try to get this changed at my company.

THANKS!!
 
Sounds stupid.

Guess it's another one of those PBS gems. Mil Leave on an Off-Day? Okay, we'll subtract your MMG 2.5 hours per day you're "off."

:banghead:
 
Wow!!! So much for the "extra money" you get for serving our country. That's kind of a slap in the face. Our men and women in the service deserve better. I hope that gets fixed and thank you for your service.
 
Why not wait until your schedule is made and then inform them of your military days only if you are working those days. That way if those days are already off then you don't get docked (stupid rule to begin with) and if you are scheduled that weekend then it makes since to get your MMG reduced for not being available on two work days.
 
subpilot said:
Why not wait until your schedule is made and then inform them of your military days only if you are working those days. That way if those days are already off then you don't get docked (stupid rule to begin with) and if you are scheduled that weekend then it makes since to get your MMG reduced for not being available on two work days.
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Can't do that. Since PBS came out, they require you to submit your orders prior to lines being built. I'm pretty sure there's a grievance out on that one if not some legal wrangling with the US government. With this place, they'd probably miss trip you for doing a drill weekend. I got missed trip for jury duty here, once.
 
You are suppose to give your company prior notice on any military orders (including drill weekend) but does not define what "prior notice" means. I used to wait until about a week before the drill weekend. The company can not punish you for delaying your notice to them as long as it is not last minute. Another thing to consider is that the law states that your employer must allow this absence without punishment or loss of seniority. Basically this means that you inform them and they take you off the schedule, period. They don't get to make any approved/denied decisions or penalize you. The airlines have a reserve system designed to cover people who are removed from flights and as long as they are properly staffed this should be a non-issue and if they are not properly staffed then that is not your fault or concern.
 
mxflyer said:
Wow!!! So much for the "extra money" you get for serving our country. That's kind of a slap in the face. Our men and women in the service deserve better. I hope that gets fixed and thank you for your service.
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With my 5 hours of pay deducted from guarantee, and with my E4 drill check, come out with a net LOSS of more than 50 bucks!!

kellwolf said:
Can't do that. Since PBS came out, they require you to submit your orders prior to lines being built. I'm pretty sure there's a grievance out on that one if not some legal wrangling with the US government. With this place, they'd probably miss trip you for doing a drill weekend. I got missed trip for jury duty here, once.
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You got your missed trip removed right?? I would love jury duty, since we get paid for it, and I dont have to commute!

subpilot said:
You are suppose to give your company prior notice on any military orders (including drill weekend) but does not define what "prior notice" means. I used to wait until about a week before the drill weekend. The company can not punish you for delaying your notice to them as long as it is not last minute. Another thing to consider is that the law states that your employer must allow this absence without punishment or loss of seniority. Basically this means that you inform them and they take you off the schedule, period. They don't get to make any approved/denied decisions or penalize you. The airlines have a reserve system designed to cover people who are removed from flights and as long as they are properly staffed this should be a non-issue and if they are not properly staffed then that is not your fault or concern.
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I have never had a problem getting the days off. So i cant complain about that. I just dont like getting penalized for drill weekend. I dont mind NOT getting paid for my off days, or drill weekend, but i dont think its fair to get DEDUCTED pay.
 
Comair has PBS
For they deduct 2.73 per day if placed prior to bidding. If placed after bidding lost flight time deducted for a line holder and 3.75 for a reserve day.

Expressjet line bidding
Line lost flight time for a line holder and 3.75 for a reserve day.

Compass
prorated month or 4.0 per reserve day depending on how processed
 
And? Just because the thieves are on the board doesn't mean we have to be nice about Uncle Sam's faithful employees getting screwed over by their airline massuhs.
 
subpilot said:
You are suppose to give your company prior notice on any military orders (including drill weekend) but does not define what "prior notice" means. I used to wait until about a week before the drill weekend. The company can not punish you for delaying your notice to them as long as it is not last minute. Another thing to consider is that the law states that your employer must allow this absence without punishment or loss of seniority. Basically this means that you inform them and they take you off the schedule, period. They don't get to make any approved/denied decisions or penalize you. The airlines have a reserve system designed to cover people who are removed from flights and as long as they are properly staffed this should be a non-issue and if they are not properly staffed then that is not your fault or concern.
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They know you get the drill schedule ahead of time. So, even if you have it approved through HR, they are aware that you aren't doing them any favors by giving them the date after your schedule is out. That is, if they want the dates ahead of time. That works if you're senior, but if you're junior and on reserve, they rememeber you. I know that you know this, but I'm only saying it because others who may be considering what to do are reading this.
 
I understand that you should be forthcoming and have good communications with your employer on this issue but they should be fair.

So you are on reserve and get 11 days off per month. You inform the company of your military drill weekend and they mark that weekend as Military Leave and deduct your MMG by 5 hours (2 x 2.5). Now when your schedule is created do you still have 11 days off not including the drill weekend (ie 13 days off reserve) or are you only getting 11 days off total (including the drill weekend) while also getting deducted the pay?
 
subpilot said:
I understand that you should be forthcoming and have good communications with your employer on this issue but they should be fair.

So you are on reserve and get 11 days off per month. You inform the company of your military drill weekend and they mark that weekend as Military Leave and deduct your MMG by 5 hours (2 x 2.5). Now when your schedule is created do you still have 11 days off not including the drill weekend (ie 13 days off reserve) or are you only getting 11 days off total (including the drill weekend) while also getting deducted the pay?
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Yes you are getting the latter, 11 days off TOTAL, including drill weekends. Their argument is you are only available to us 28 days out of the month instead of the normal 30. Who knew I was at the company's beck and call EVERYDAY of my life. I wonder if office staff gets deducted pay for their drill weekends.
 
Grieve that ASAP! There argument that you are only available 28 days instead of 30 is BS and has a big hole in it.

30 day month: Drilling
You get 11 days off (including drill weekend) = 9 actual days off to you.
You are on duty 19 days that month (add drill weekend = 21 days of work).
Your MMG = 70 hours (75 - 5)

30 day month: Not Drilling
You get 11 days off .
You are on duty 19 days that month.
Your MMG = 75 hours

This means (if you can understand my rambling) that you are still on reserve duty for 19 days out of the month either way. Doesn't matter if you are available 28 days or 30 days. They are stealing 5 hours of pay from you.
 
subpilot said:
Grieve that ASAP! There argument that you are only available 28 days instead of 30 is BS and has a big hole in it.
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Pretty sure the class action grievance went in about a day after the policy started. Should be getting to arbitration sometime in the next couple of years, I imagine.
 
kellwolf said:
Can't do that. Since PBS came out, they require you to submit your orders prior to lines being built. I'm pretty sure there's a grievance out on that one if not some legal wrangling with the US government. With this place, they'd probably miss trip you for doing a drill weekend. I got missed trip for jury duty here, once.
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You CAN do that. In fact, Federal Law (USERRA) only requires notification of military duty. You can give that notification the day prior, if you wish.

If you take military leave for drill (after the schedule is out), and it conflicts with a trip, then they do not have to pay you for the missed trip, but they cannot discipline you in any way.

I would recommend contacting the US Department of Labor, Veterans Employment and Training Service. They are responsible for USERRA enforcement, and are a great resource.

I know you probably don't want to be under the microscope, but you should not put up with this crap.

You should not have to suffer a pay cut for performing military duty on days off. That is illegal.
 
piper said:
I know you probably don't want to be under the microscope, but you should not put up with this crap.

You should not have to suffer a pay cut for performing military duty on days off. That is illegal.
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Oh, I agree totally. I'm not even military/reserve, and I'm hacked off that our company is doing this to our guys and gals. Basically, it's a tool to make PBS run even leaner so they still don't have to hire any more pilots. If your reserve pilots are getting four days dropped on their schedule FOUR DAYS in advance, you're probably understaffed.
 
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