You know what the world really needs right now? Another tran-Atlantic ULCC start-up based in Ireland!

[Pilot Fighter]

Who keeps financing this garbage?

Leasing companies that know the market.

Carriers with large fleets require long term plans that include expensive D-checks. If you need a small fleet, the leasing companies can package deals that take a plane to D-check and the carrier can walk away.

When you see airlines parking planes in the desert, it doesn’t always mean than they are reducing capacity. Sometimes they are parking a timed-out airframe only to lease a fresher airframe with attractive terms.

 

[///AMG]

Leasing companies that know the market.

Carriers with large fleets require long term plans that include expensive D-checks. If you need a small fleet, the leasing companies can package deals that take a plane to D-check and the carrier can walk away.

When you see airlines parking planes in the desert, it doesn’t always mean than they are reducing capacity. Sometimes they are parking a timed-out airframe only to lease a fresher airframe with attractive terms.

Interesting. So many mini-games to be played in the big game

 

[form810]

Who keeps financing this garbage?

Money is a tool. Like a hammer.

It allows for creation and "progress". It also allows for almost unlimited mistakes without personal consequence. Too much money is almost exactly the same as giving stuff away for free. When stuff is free, poor people grab and hoard and waste and act stupidly. Rich people do the same, which they always do, 'cause for rich people everything is always "free".

Sadly, when folks have too much money -or too little money- (same same, but deeflent), they act in very similar fashions. They tend to just keep using their hammers to pound holes in walls... with no personal consequence.

 

[Pilot Fighter]

Interesting. So many mini-games to be played in the big game

It’s a crazy game. For decades, lease terms usually included the carrier paying for a C-check or D-check at the end of a lease.

Now, it’s the Wild West with ULCC carriers flying until a D-check is needed or buying a timed out airframe for pennies with the leasing companies financing a fresh D-check.

Small start-up ULCC’s are financially viable because they can field fleets simply by visiting the yard sales of larger carriers.

 

[///AMG]

So what happens to the jets once they change hands? Who eats the cost of the D check? That would presumably be the next carrier with financing covering the cost?

 

[form810]

It’s a crazy game. For decades, lease terms usually included the carrier paying for a C-check or D-check at the end of a lease.

Now, it’s the Wild West with ULCC carriers flying until a D-check is needed or buying a timed out airframe for pennies with the leasing companies financing a fresh D-check.

Small start-up ULCC’s are financially viable because they can field fleets simply by visiting the yard sales of larger carriers.

A lot of crotchety old white guys in the '80s got super upset about 'Murica "losing" its automotive industry.

Even as a grade-schooler at the time, I tried to help them understand... "No, diptards. Ford and GM aren't gone. They are now banks. A consumer no longer buys a car. He buys a loan and gets a car thrown in for free!"

The 80's was the beginning of the the era that thrust us toward our current cultural malaise.

 

[///AMG]

I'll buy that "globalism" screwed a lot of Americans out of decent manufacturing jobs. I won't buy that they haven't had 30+ years to figure out another way to make a living collectively. Those of us who grew up in the 80's and 90's intuitively understood this, but the Simpsons dream died in perhaps the second season, which might have been the entire premise of the show in hindsight.

I work 3 jobs for a reason. Airline, defense contractor, and military. I was an adult during 9/11, the recession, and everything since. One of those industries will continue to pay full time regardless of the market. Social media might call it a "hustle". I just call it being intelligent and proactive about the future. Those guys 40 years ago you talk about just didn't understand the need for a back up or a back up to the back up. Nobody is spending 30 years doing nearly nothing and retiring with a pension anymore.

 

[Pilot Fighter]

So what happens to the jets once they change hands? Who eats the cost of the D check? That would presumably be the next carrier with financing covering the cost?

Yes. Next carrier or sometimes a leasing company will pay for a D-check on a parked airframe just to have it ready to fly, avoiding two months or more for a D-check.

A ULCC strategy might include never paying for a D-check or ONLY paying for a D-check. For leasing companies, getting a plane back up in the air means resumption of a revenue stream. The thinking of the leasing company is they are often better off giving away an older plane and financing the D-check versus never seeing revenue from that plane again, ever.

If we are going to start a ULCC with three 737’s serving SEA-SFO, we only need to find amazing deals and financing on three older planes. The needs of larger non-ULCC carriers can’t be met shopping at yard sales.

 

[Pilot Fighter]

Those guys 40 years ago you talk about just didn't understand the need for a back up or a back up to the back up. Nobody is spending 30 years doing nearly nothing and retiring with a pension anymore.

Some of the old folks that are critical about where the middle class, or working class, is today aren’t being especially honest.

When I was a kid, there were lots of middle class folks living in small two bed, one bath houses. Many of those folks had one car or a good car and a junker. Eating out was a treat. Folks lived within their means. No cell phones, no monthly subscriptions for streaming entertainment, one TV. They often have a MAGA revisionist recollection of the 50’s, 60’s, and 70’s.

Here’s the twist. Those old folks are often doing okay, they are dealing with their kids that they failed to prepare for life.

 

[///AMG]

Some of the old folks that are critical about where the middle class, or working class, is today aren’t being especially honest.

When I was a kid, there were lots of middle class folks living in small two bed, one bath houses. Many of those folks had one car or a good car and a junker. Eating out was a treat. Folks lived within their means. No cell phones, no monthly subscriptions for streaming entertainment, one TV. They often have a MAGA revisionist recollection of the 50’s, 60’s, and 70’s.

Here’s the twist. Those old folks are often doing okay, they are dealing with their kids that they failed to prepare for life.

Pretty much this

 

[Baronman]

Hearing JetBlue on the tracks at 290-310 is enough to make my head spin.

Don‘t think 29 or 31 are the norm…

 

[CFI A&P]

Here’s the twist. Those old folks are often doing okay, they are dealing with their kids that they failed to prepare for life.

That’s the key. Every boomer that complains about the younger generation’s work ethic or entitlement should ask themselves who raised that generation to have these expectations and standards.

 

[Avalon781ML]

Don‘t think 29 or 31 are the norm…

I’ve heard them at those levels more than I’ve heard them at higher levels….. I’m not a Internet flight stalker so I can’t verify… maybe they step frequently? IDK.

 

[Baronman]

I’ve heard them at those levels more than I’ve heard them at higher levels….. I’m not a Internet flight stalker so I can’t verify… maybe they step frequently? IDK.

I dunno....Looking at the last week of Flight 20 which is the Westbound LHR-JFK flight, I can't find a single one looking like they cruised below FL320. The norm seem to be 320 and 340. Checking Gatwick-JFK shows the same. Mostly 32,33,34,35....

 

[NovemberEcho]

I won't buy that they haven't had 30+ years to figure out another way to make a living collectively.

They were all told to go to college and get bachelors degrees, which now pays • for “entry level” jobs which are starting to require masters and 5 years experience because now everyone has a bachelors.

 

[NovemberEcho]

That’s the key. Every boomer that complains about the younger generation’s work ethic or entitlement should ask themselves who raised that generation to have these expectations and standards.

And every single one would say “not MY kid”

 

[BobDDuck]

I dunno....Looking at the last week of Flight 20 which is the Westbound LHR-JFK flight, I can't find a single one looking like they cruised below FL320. The norm seem to be 320 and 340. Checking Gatwick-JFK shows the same. Mostly 32,33,34,35....

I did about 3 years of ETOPS 180 Hawaii tracks (err... routes!) in a 321 NEO. We normally were in the low 30s. If we were light we'd end up at 340-360. The nice thing is that nobody else was down there so it wasn't unusual to go block 280-340. The fuel burn difference was less than 1000 pounds with the Pratts.

 

[FlyingAccountant]

They were all told to go to college and get bachelors degrees, which now pays • for “entry level” jobs which are starting to require masters and 5 years experience because now everyone has a bachelors.

I've noticed in my industry, accounting, that we're slowly coming to the realization that we can't pay new grads $40k/yr anymore and people with 5-10 years experience should be making six figs and not $65k. Especially in areas like Phoenix where the COL is bat-sheiss crazy right now.

 

[Maximilian_Jenius]

I did about 3 years of ETOPS 180 Hawaii tracks (err... routes!) in a 321 NEO. We normally were in the low 30s. If we were light we'd end up at 340-360. The nice thing is that nobody else was down there so it wasn't unusual to go block 280-340. The fuel burn difference was less than 1000 pounds with the Pratts.

What alt is (normal) is everyone else at?

I've noticed in my industry, accounting, that we're slowly coming to the realization that we can't pay new grads $40k/yr anymore and people with 5-10 years experience should be making six figs and not $65k. Especially in areas like Phoenix where the COL is bat-sheiss crazy right now.

Husband is an accountant and we live in PHX. He'll be glad to read this.

 

[BobDDuck]

What alt is (normal) is everyone else at?

370 to 410