WSJ: 3407 to Public Hearing, Ice minimal factor

SmitteyB

Well-Known Member
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123799985067139939.html

By ANDY PASZTOR

Ice buildup wasn't a major factor in last month's Colgan Air Inc. commuter-plane crash that killed 50 people near Buffalo, N.Y., federal investigators said.

In its latest update on the investigation, the National Transportation Safety Board said ice "had a minimal impact" on the performance or handling of the twin engine turboprop. Instead, the safety board said the latest evidence indicates the plane didn't experience any mechanical problems and that it was flying and reacting normally to cockpit commands when its speed bled off and it went into a fatal roll.

Mark Rosenker, the NTSB's acting chairman, said in the update that the "circumstances of the crash have raised several issues that go well beyond the widely discussed matter of airframe icing."

The twin-engine Bombardier Q400 went out of control and bucked violently on when it was a few miles out and descending toward the Buffalo airport on the night of Feb. 12. The onboard stall-warning systems alerted the pilots by shaking the control column and, according to Wednesday's update, the captain forcefully pulled back on the controls, raising the plane's nose and further lowering its speed.

All 49 people aboard the plane, and one person on the ground, were killed.

Investigators have believed for some time that this sequence of events automatically activated the "stick pusher," which pushes the control column forward to angle the nose of the plane down in order to regain speed. But at that point, according to people familiar with the details, the captain continued pulling back sharply on the controls and added power, instead of following the proper procedure of pushing forward to lower the nose to get out of a typical stall.

The new information indicates the investigation will focus on pilot distraction or mistakes on the night of the crash that allowed the plane to slow dangerously, along with broader issues of pilot training at Colgan and its parent company, Pinnacle Airlines Inc.

The safety board is looking at general training issues and the specific flight techniques Colgan pilots are taught to use in icing conditions or when an aircraft is entering a stall. In addition, investigators will look into why another Colgan-operated Q400 later experienced the beginning of a stall while approaching the airport in Burlington, Vt.

The safety board, as expected, said it will hold an initial public hearing on the crash in mid-May, focusing on icing, crew experience, pilot fatigue, stall-recover training and so-called "sterile cockpit rules" that bar pilots from extraneous discussions during critical flight maneuvers.
 
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123799985067139939.html

By ANDY PASZTOR

Ice buildup wasn't a major factor in last month's Colgan Air Inc. commuter-plane crash that killed 50 people near Buffalo, N.Y., federal investigators said.

In its latest update on the investigation, the National Transportation Safety Board said ice "had a minimal impact" on the performance or handling of the twin engine turboprop. Instead, the safety board said the latest evidence indicates the plane didn't experience any mechanical problems and that it was flying and reacting normally to cockpit commands when its speed bled off and it went into a fatal roll.

Mark Rosenker, the NTSB's acting chairman, said in the update that the "circumstances of the crash have raised several issues that go well beyond the widely discussed matter of airframe icing."

The twin-engine Bombardier Q400 went out of control and bucked violently on when it was a few miles out and descending toward the Buffalo airport on the night of Feb. 12. The onboard stall-warning systems alerted the pilots by shaking the control column and, according to Wednesday's update, the captain forcefully pulled back on the controls, raising the plane's nose and further lowering its speed.

All 49 people aboard the plane, and one person on the ground, were killed.

Investigators have believed for some time that this sequence of events automatically activated the "stick pusher," which pushes the control column forward to angle the nose of the plane down in order to regain speed. But at that point, according to people familiar with the details, the captain continued pulling back sharply on the controls and added power, instead of following the proper procedure of pushing forward to lower the nose to get out of a typical stall.

The new information indicates the investigation will focus on pilot distraction or mistakes on the night of the crash that allowed the plane to slow dangerously, along with broader issues of pilot training at Colgan and its parent company, Pinnacle Airlines Inc.

The safety board is looking at general training issues and the specific flight techniques Colgan pilots are taught to use in icing conditions or when an aircraft is entering a stall. In addition, investigators will look into why another Colgan-operated Q400 later experienced the beginning of a stall while approaching the airport in Burlington, Vt.

The safety board, as expected, said it will hold an initial public hearing on the crash in mid-May, focusing on icing, crew experience, pilot fatigue, stall-recover training and so-called "sterile cockpit rules" that bar pilots from extraneous discussions during critical flight maneuvers.

Maybe the captain thought it was a tail-plane icing event
 
I keep hearing about a public "hearing". Is this going to be some sort of Q&A press conference? They way they talk about it I'm half expecting subpoenas out.
 
The public hearing thing is a good news/bad news proposition for the company the way I understand it. We will be airing the contributing factors of the accident in a very public manner, and there is the risk that it may destroy public confidence in the Colgan Air brand-name. However, it is an opportunity to state in a public way the current state of the airline industry with an emphasis on the regional airline sector.
 
Oh they got more than that, and they no longer work there is what i have heard from my Colgan friends.
They?

Negative, only one of the crew was canned. Wasn't the other persons fault.

Edit: let me rephrase that better for the circumstance. One guy wasn't let go because it was determined he was not at fault.
 
Oh they got more than that, and they no longer work there is what i have heard from my Colgan friends.

Completely False.

Shaker went off, nothing more then that.

I haven't heard anything official of anyone being fired, although the status of the flying pilot seems to be unknown.

One pilot is already back on the line.
 
Whats next? Automatically get fired when you exceed Vmo in a descent? You can change the Vmo horn to play Trump soundbyte "*BLEEEEEEE*YOU'RE FIRED!*BLEEEEE*YOU'RE FIRED!"
 
Whats next? Automatically get fired when you exceed Vmo in a descent? You can change the Vmo horn to play Trump soundbyte "*BLEEEEEEE*YOU'RE FIRED!*BLEEEEE*YOU'RE FIRED!"

While that would be funny, I know you know that going too fast is not as serious or dangerous as going too slow.
 
I would not brag about this in a public forum.

I know you're a very competent CA but this is not common.

Maybe not as uncommon as you think...I've had a shaker while in a hold, going pretty slow and hit some big bumps at about 190-200kts and got a rattle. Certainly surprised me.
 
Good point. I'm sorry for jumping to conclusions kellwolf.

As far as I'm concerned shaker/horn (on the hondo we had the horn) not really a big deal, shouldn't happen on purpose, but occasionally happens in a slow hold or with crazy windshear on final. Full break = fire, if not for training. Just my $.02.
 
I would not brag about this in a public forum.

I know you're a very competent CA but this is not common.

Maybe not in the Saab, but I have yet to meet someone here that hasn't gotten one. I got one coming in on an approach to PIT one night. Went around b/c I was concerned it might have to do with the t-storms moving in. I've seen guys get them in the flare a lot. If you pull the power out too quickly or too high, you're probably either gonna put a dent in the runway or get the shaker.
 
Maybe not in the Saab, but I have yet to meet someone here that hasn't gotten one. I got one coming in on an approach to PIT one night. Went around b/c I was concerned it might have to do with the t-storms moving in. I've seen guys get them in the flare a lot. If you pull the power out too quickly or too high, you're probably either gonna put a dent in the runway or get the shaker.

Crap I've gotten one on takeoff from AVP. Windy as heck coming in and on my leg out windy too. I rotated normal and the yoke went off. Added power and and kept attitude. Things happen out there gents/ladies.
 
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