Will the public pay for experience?

Cav said:
Do they have brand loyalty or does SWA have loyalty in certain markets where they ran everyone else out of town and offer the best alternative? This could be said for a lot of airlines though but I wouldn't call it brand loyalty necessarily.
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Yes they have brand loyalty.
All 20 flights I looked up (not one was SWA the cheapest) where out of mainline hubs.
 
WN has done a very successful job of differentiating themselves to the public eye.

The public sees Southwest the way Southwest wants to be seen, whether the facts align or not.

They are very successful in that line.

All the others play follow the leader.
 
Of course the public would pay for experience. At issue are several things:

If the recent past is any indication, experience doesn't guarantee safety or even a better safety record. Delta/Continental landing on a taxiway, Continental losing control and departing the runway in Denver, AA's several recent mishaps (one major one).

and the fact that you can do your research on your doctor, your lawyer, even your car mechanic and hair stylist, however you can't do any research on your pilots.

The public has trusted the government and airlines in general to place competent pilots/management at the helm. When that trust is broken for any reason (ie Valujet) the company shuts down and becomes a new company (Airtran). Public trust is then restored in the "new" company.
 
minitour said:
Because I can leave my bags at the ticket counter, walk through security with nothing but my laptop and I don't have to fork over a small fortune for the privilege of not having to check my bags.

-mini
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Not that I'm arguing with checked bags costing you money -- they don't if you make preferred status on an airline -- but I don't consider $30 a small fortune ($15 per bag).

If it makes people pack less, I'm all for it. Seriously, I cannot believe the number of people who take a two day trip and pack like they're going on an expedition to climb Everest.
 
tonyw said:
What you need to do is take the attitude of professional athletes and Wall Street bankers.

They don't give a rat's ass what the public thinks they should make. They only give a damn about forcing their employer to cough up more money. How their employer makes a profit isn't seen as their problem. They just demand more pay, and because they have skills their employer is wiling to pay for, they get it.

That's the attitude any employee should take. How can I force my employer to pay me more? None of this Office Space crap about "think about the good of the company." The company generally isn't thinking about the good of you, so why should you worry about the good of the company?

Get as much as you can as quick as you can. You are a hired gun, nothing more, nothing less.

You'll probably get laid off or fired sooner or later anyway due to something that you had no power to influence, so why worry?
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:clap::clap::clap::clap::rawk::rawk::rawk::rawk::yeahthat::yeahthat:

thank you jesus YES.

anyone of you spineless twerps that are gleefully working for the man, who honestly is only using YOU to make a buck for HIM... are IDIOTS.

look out for #1.
 
tonyw said:
Not that I'm arguing with checked bags costing you money -- they don't if you make preferred status on an airline -- but I don't consider $30 a small fortune ($15 per bag).
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It's gambling money on the ship. ...and when you're saving to hopefully have kids, every penny helps.

As for "elite status", we don't fly enough to ever get that. Even at my current gig with this airline to/fro, unless something major happens (and it would only be on Scareways) I'm not getting any free stuff.

Hilton, OTOH... :rawk:

If it makes people pack less, I'm all for it. Seriously, I cannot believe the number of people who take a two day trip and pack like they're going on an expedition to climb Everest.
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When we fly, we go somewhere for at least 7-10 days. We don't do the little weekend getaways. I'm not sure how any of that is relevant. If someone wants to check a bag, what do you care? You aren't loading it. If they want to check a toiletry bag or a set of golf clubs, does it matter to you in the cockpit?:dunno:

-mini
 
tonyw said:
You've got to stop worrying about what the public thinks, folks. News flash -- Joe Twelvepack working the night shift at Kwik-E-Mart thinks anyone making more than he does is overpaid and underworked, and he's getting the shaft from da man.

What you need to do is take the attitude of professional athletes and Wall Street bankers.

They don't give a rat's ass what the public thinks they should make. They only give a damn about forcing their employer to cough up more money. How their employer makes a profit isn't seen as their problem. They just demand more pay, and because they have skills their employer is wiling to pay for, they get it.

That's the attitude any employee should take. How can I force my employer to pay me more? None of this Office Space crap about "think about the good of the company." The company generally isn't thinking about the good of you, so why should you worry about the good of the company?

Get as much as you can as quick as you can. You are a hired gun, nothing more, nothing less.

You'll probably get laid off or fired sooner or later anyway due to something that you had no power to influence, so why worry?
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Well said.
 
calcapt said:
I was discussing with a friend the lengths people will go to while traveling to save $1. He posed a question to me that I thought I would get some opinions on.

If 1000 passengers were told the weather at their destination was bad (windy, snowy...whatever), and they were presented with $500 in cash, and offered two options, would they:

1. Pay the $500 and fly on the shiny new jet with a well seasoned and professional looking crew (pilots they would perceive as a bit older and more experienced)...

-or-

2. Pay $300 (pocketing the other $200) and get on a plane that looked old and worn out which was flown by younger (perceived as less experienced) and wearing uniforms that looked like they were slept in.


In other words, what percentage of the flying public really cares about the airplane and who is flying it so long as they get the cheapest fare???:confused:
And for those who do care, how much more would they be willing to pay for the perceived assurance of a safe and uneventful flight?

We all know that shiny airplanes and older pilots don't guarantee anything, and that is not my point here.....just wondering about public thinking and how they would justify choosing one option over the other.
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Turn the question around. If you take your car to a repair shop, do you expect that the shop has hired competed and skilled mechanics, or do you expect you will have to pay extra to get a good repair?
 
Doug Taylor said:
I've veered from Avis at my own demise a few times. We saved *some* money by renting from Rainbow, but had to put up with a 15 minute (seriously, 15 minutes) lecture on loss and damage waivers, the car smelled like a vagrant took a poop in it, there was existing damage and it was terrible.

Ick! I'm still pissed I didn't just take it back the next day.

I go to Avis because it's "first quality".

I do the airlines the same way. Whenever I buy a ticket, it matters which airline it's on. I want non-stop, assigned seats, and well, I'm not a big fan of my passenger experience on an RJ.

There's nothing wrong or sinister with RJ's but it's just my preference. I hate running across the ramp, having to gate-check bags and I like to stand and pee like an adult.

There are particular airlines which I will not fly (again) even for free. I think you guys all heard about my experience flying from JFK to Newport News, on a full-fare ticket purchased by NASA for a study. Holy cow, it was teeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerrible and no one gave a poop.

The airlines that will succeed in the next decade are the ones that differentiate themselves from the "commodity carriers". If you have a Starbucks and a gas station, there'll probably be a line at Starbucks to get coffee, and not so much at the gas station for the same product at a lower price.
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The problem is that most of the traveling public doesn't fly enough to figure out the difference in quality. RJ or 737, they will get there in the same amount of time. Majority of the time I find majors cheaper to fly then regionals. What does that say? With the checked bag fee people are feeling like they are being nickled and dimed to death. It's like a cell phone plan: $79.99/month. Not bad. Oh don't forget the state tax, county tax, local tax, 911 service fee, universal fee and the 'we need to make more profit' fee. Just roll an average price increase into the ticket cost and be done with it.
 
Gonzo said:
Southwest has brand loyalty, but why? (You can only buy tickets on their website)
For fun I looked up 20 flights on travelocity.com and southwest.com. Do you know how many SWA was cheaper on? Zero, that is right not one.
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Compare full fare tickets on SWA against full fare on other airlines. Full, unrestricted, refundable, changeable tickets.


Polar742 said:
They are very successful in that line.

All the others play follow the leader.
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I end up posting this about every 3 months.

I fly SWA every chance because the product quality is simply there. Great service. Employees who talk to me like a grown-up instead of a toddler. Airplanes that are usually clean and nice.

Value.

Value is why I fly them. I get the most out of my flying buck on SWA.

And THAT is why I am loyal to them. They go where I want to go when I want to go there, and I lament the days I have to fly AA.

I used to be a Delta loyalist until they pretty much choked off their DFW operation and ran everything through ATL or SLC. It didn't make any sense for me to fly them anymore.
 
Now I have a question for everyone.

When is the last time you heard average, middle-class or lower-class people(non-pilots/people who don't know anything about the industry) talking about how cheap a trip was and how great airline A was for saving them so much money over flying with airline B?

Now when is the last time those people compared service saying they're going to fly with airline B from now on because the service is way better than airline A?

Considering those people make up the majority of our country, I think you have my point.
 
killbilly said:
Employees who talk to me like a grown-up instead of a toddler.
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I am glad you take notice of that. Other gate agents always tell me I put too much faith in passengers and need to dumb things down when I talk to them and make announcements as if I were talking to children. I reply that I treat our passengers with respect, and if someone talks to me like that I see it as disrespect and want to pop them one in the mouth. Glad some paying pax actually care.

I like WN, but I will say before I ever flew them, all I ever heard were how funny the F/As are and how its such a great time when you fly them. I've only flown WN 7 times so far, but of those flights only 2 of them had crews that were informal and lighthearted, all the other flights could have been UA, NW, or any other airline with just the standard announcements and service. 7 flights isn't a whole lot to judge an airline on, but less than 1/3 of my trips isn't much consistency when it comes to what the airline's product is said to be.
 
ChasenSFO said:
I reply that I treat our passengers with respect, and if someone talks to me like that I see it as disrespect and want to pop them one in the mouth. Glad some paying pax actually care.
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I never used to notice how annoying that was until I started flying WN regularly. Then it was like, "whoa, this is nice."

I like WN, but I will say before I ever flew them, all I ever heard were how funny the F/As are and how its such a great time when you fly them. I've only flown WN 7 times so far, but of those flights only 2 of them had crews that were informal and lighthearted, all the other flights could have been UA, NW, or any other airline with just the standard announcements and service. 7 flights isn't a whole lot to judge an airline on, but less than 1/3 of my trips isn't much consistency when it comes to what the airline's product is said to be.
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I've got about 75 legs with them over the last 18 months, and what you experienced is the exception rather than the rule, in my opinion. Maybe it's the city pairs I usually fly with them, but because of the way they do scheduling, it's not very common that I get a crew I know/recognize. They seem to move em' all over the place.

I'll tellya something else. I scored on their A-List program. Being able to bypass the customer service lines AND the security lines in PHX has been a godsend. I'm sure other airlines have similar services, but I haven't seen them.
 
skydog2 said:
Turn the question around. If you take your car to a repair shop, do you expect that the shop has hired competed and skilled mechanics, or do you expect you will have to pay extra to get a good repair?
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Truthfully, if I took my car to a shop that was the cheapest guy in town, I would wonder to myself why that was? Is it a guy that does a great job but just doesn't have the overhead the big guys do? Or, is it a guy that is installing used parts instead of new?

Truthfully, I wouldn't know in most cases. I always try to establish a range of quotes for anything major I buy or have repaired and typically go with the place that falls somewhere in the middle. It is important to me that the repair shop makes a fair and reasonable profit, but not gouge me like some try to do. The cheapest quote is not always the best value.
 
killbilly said:
I'll tellya something else. I scored on their A-List program. Being able to bypass the customer service lines AND the security lines in PHX has been a Godsend.....
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I hear this same thing From Toria all the time. I swear, that woman knows more secrets and tricks than anyone I know about air travel. :dunno:

What she hasn't figured out though is why she routinely gets selected for the pat-down and frisking by the TSA Boys. I guess at some point I will be forced to reveal the ugly truth to her....;)
 
berge7f9 said:
The answer, plain and simple
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Disagree. I can fly cheaper fares and airlines to most of my destinations. Fare is of secondary concern most of the time. Schedule, flexibility and convenience are primary. Mostly because my time is worth something to me. If I'm going to spend extra hours in the airport or driving way out of my way to save $100 on a ticket, it's not worth it. And my company knows this, and they're cool with it.

THAT is how business travelers evaluate a fare. Look at the fare class - that's what makes the pricing decision. And that - I'll say it till I'm blue in the face - is why SWA does so well.
 
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