Will the public pay for experience?

I agree that airlines are a commodity, or are at least treated like they are, the funny thing is, flying is the best form of long distance travel period. If the airlines all raised their fares (all is key here) then what would be the consequence, sure some flying would slow down, but it's not like amtrack or greyhound would get a big boost. Too slow and not going anywhere other than major cities. It is the best product on the market but it isn't priced like it, why? Becasue people precieve it just like they do gas and water. I think the pilots need to do some PR and show how most of them are on food stamps, and have the airlines raise prices. I'm not totally convinced raising fares would totally kill supply, look at corporate travel and first class travel, highly demanded and people are willing to pay for it.
 
MikeD said:
I agree that people don't always go cheap, but I think that also depends. For example, while you may not shop at WalMart, if you were (for sake of argument) renting a car on the fly, would you necessarily go to the expensive Hertz or National counter, when the Enterprise counter down the aisle has the same product for much lower? IMO this is how the public sees airlines.......pretty much all the same product-wise (I'm talking the average Joe Bag-O-Donuts traveler), therefore it now becomes "where can I get the cheapest price, since these [airlines] are all the same anyway?"
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I always go with Enterprise or Budget. Their cars are much cheaper, and they're basically the same product. Customer service is practically the same as well. I don't need a nice waiting area... I want the car keys so I can get the heck away from the airport. I always drive around in the Kia Rio type cars anyways, because I'm not looking for luxury... Having a car is a luxury to me.

When I commute, I typically fly on American, United and Continental every week. Honestly, besides some minor differences, the products are all quite similar. What makes the trip positive or negative for me is the gate agents attitude, the crew, and whether we have some insane delay. That's not something I can measure on Orbitz.

PS: The helmet I have is just as good, if not better than the expensive ones. Even more important in preventing concussions is a good mouthguard.
 
seaav8tor said:
.......................B I N G O......................

The public WOULD pay more IF they could differentiate ANY perception of value added. The thought they will always pick the lowest cost flys in the face (no pun) of the success of Starbucks, Apple, Harley Davidson, and other goods or services that command a premium. The reason our industry cannot do it is because they spend all of their time, energy, and effort trying to make perception the service is a commodity. The minor cosmetic differences are considered by both the consumer and industry leaders (behind closed doors) to be irrelevant. One level of safety. Seamless service, etc.
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While the value added point is a good one, I think the real problem is that the average consumer sees an airline flight as a means to an end. They aren't concerned as much with the experience as much as they are with getting quickly to their destination in a convenient manner. I'd go as far as to say that they probably view an airline flight about as seriously as they consider a car rental. Is it cheap, available, and big enough for their needs? The bottom line is that it is a necessity to get from point A to point B, where presumably the real money spending vacation begins. If folks were more educated, I'm sure some of these priorities might change, but the fact is that they aren't.....not only that, but they have grown accustomed to being packed into an RJ like sardines while being trucked around by low time regional pilots (not always the case, but certainly the stereotype we are working with here). For the most part, the biggest inconvenience they have had is a delay here and there, maybe some lost luggage, and having to squeeze into their seat next to that 300 lb passenger next to them who should have been required to buy both seats. They haven't spent the night in a hospital because their crew gooned up a nighttime approach to mins in terrible wx while having not met crew rest requirements. They are blissfully ignorant of the disparities between the flight decks of the competing airlines, and the most thought they probably ever gave to the crew (if they even saw them) was that doogie howser was their FO.
 
I've veered from Avis at my own demise a few times. We saved *some* money by renting from Rainbow, but had to put up with a 15 minute (seriously, 15 minutes) lecture on loss and damage waivers, the car smelled like a vagrant took a poop in it, there was existing damage and it was terrible.

Ick! I'm still pissed I didn't just take it back the next day.

I go to Avis because it's "first quality".

I do the airlines the same way. Whenever I buy a ticket, it matters which airline it's on. I want non-stop, assigned seats, and well, I'm not a big fan of my passenger experience on an RJ.

There's nothing wrong or sinister with RJ's but it's just my preference. I hate running across the ramp, having to gate-check bags and I like to stand and pee like an adult.

There are particular airlines which I will not fly (again) even for free. I think you guys all heard about my experience flying from JFK to Newport News, on a full-fare ticket purchased by NASA for a study. Holy cow, it was teeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerrible and no one gave a poop.

The airlines that will succeed in the next decade are the ones that differentiate themselves from the "commodity carriers". If you have a Starbucks and a gas station, there'll probably be a line at Starbucks to get coffee, and not so much at the gas station for the same product at a lower price.
 
I feel the same way Doug, but I'd say we may be somewhat in the minority. Experienced travelers that do it for a living are probably more concerned about travel details, but Bob and Wilma going to visit mom and dad in Ft Lauderdale most likely are not. I fully agree that there is a huge market sitting right in front of us for the airline that sacks up and decides to start providing more service at a higher price, but I believe at least initially they will cater more towards folks like you and I who actually care. Eventually the masses will come around, I just don't know if they are ready to yet.

Edit: no offense intended in my previous post towards the regional bubbas on this forum, but I'm sure you know that your cabins aren't exactly comfortable to the average person.
 
Doug Taylor said:
I do the airlines the same way. Whenever I buy a ticket, it matters which airline it's on. I want non-stop, assigned seats, and well, I'm not a big fan of my passenger experience on an RJ.

There's nothing wrong or sinister with RJ's but it's just my preference. I hate running across the ramp, having to gate-check bags and I like to stand and pee like an adult.
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I don't know what you're trying to pass by us here Doug, but those of us familiar with RJ dimensions know that it's built with your height in mind. :D
 
Gonzo said:
Hey, I get the same pay check as a AA pilot.:crazy:

PS - That is a bad example, because for the most part Eagle is American.
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Sort of but not really. His points is that Eagle is a fully separate company in terms of employment, training, and seniority lists. Active AA pilots, while highly similar in their training, never lay hands on the controls an American Eagle flight.
 
Ian J said:
People fly Cape Air... a relatively little know name with very small prop planes.
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Little known except to the 650,000 passengers carried last year. ;)

And you know, of all the thousands of people I've carried on these things, I've had one person refuse to get on. One, out of maybe 5000-6000 I've carried? And I'm talking walking out to the plane in the pouring rain, lightning on the horizon, white knuckling the whole way through to BOS. Things I've heard from passengers who ended up sticking it out through the end of the flight:

"Is this airplane safe?"
"I'm so scared."
"This is the smallest plane I've been on."
"Are you old enough to fly?" (I can count those questions on one hand, thank god)
"Are we going to crash?"
"You do know what you're doing, don't you?"
"Is it okay to fly in this weather?"
"Where's the co-pilot??"

We fill all 9 seats constantly, without fail. That's how our business model works. Put an airplane out on the ramp, and regardless of the size or how people feel about it, they'll get on as long as you'll take them where they want to go.

That explains why the Q400 still does just fine on the EWR-BUF route (not comparing Cape Air to Colgan...that'd be unfair to Cape Air! ;)), and why people simply give lip service to pilot pay and qualifications, all while hopping on the airline that offered them the lowest fare.

People don't care.
 
Cav said:
Agree with this 100%. This is the reason there is little brand loyalty among the traveling public. Everything is perceived to be the same so why bother? Like Chicaga showed, in some areas people pay more because of a noticeable difference in quality. When it comes to air travel, the quality of the product (rightly or wrongly) is thought to be so low that people pay the least amount of money they can to acquire it. Why do you think it almost seems trendy to endlessly complain about your last bad flight experience?
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Southwest has brand loyalty, but why? (You can only buy tickets on their website)
For fun I looked up 20 flights on travelocity.com and southwest.com. Do you know how many SWA was cheaper on? Zero, that is right not one.
 
Gonzo said:
Southwest has brand loyalty, but why? (You can only buy tickets on their website)
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Because I can leave my bags at the ticket counter, walk through security with nothing but my laptop and I don't have to fork over a small fortune for the privilege of not having to check my bags.

-mini
 
minitour said:
Because I can leave my bags at the ticket counter, walk through security with nothing but my laptop and I don't have to fork over a small fortune for the privilege of not having to check my bags.

-mini
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They also have a commercial with a rap about that. It's awesome.
 
///AMG said:
Edit: no offense intended in my previous post towards the regional bubbas on this forum, but I'm sure you know that your cabins aren't exactly comfortable to the average person.
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Fortunately planes are not subways and most normal people are seated 99% of the time. Of course people like to moan about whatever they can. For me, nothing but nothing can be worse than a middle seat, and I have a 1/3 shot in getting assigned one in a domestic mainline narrowbody.
 
Gonzo said:
Southwest has brand loyalty, but why? (You can only buy tickets on their website)
For fun I looked up 20 flights on travelocity.com and southwest.com. Do you know how many SWA was cheaper on? Zero, that is right not one.
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Do they have brand loyalty or does SWA have loyalty in certain markets where they ran everyone else out of town and offer the best alternative? This could be said for a lot of airlines though but I wouldn't call it brand loyalty necessarily.

When I was living and working outside of aviation in BNA I loved flying SWA because they gave me the best options. When I moved to NJ my loyalty disappeared. It wasn't worth the hour drive to PHL. It's a niche market. Admittedly I now work for an airline but I still travel on 2-3 paid for tickets a year.
 
Slugger said:
They also have a commercial with a rap about that. It's awesome.
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I don't really care about that. I also don't care about who has wifi and what-not. I want a comfy seat I can pass out in and someone to get me there somewhat on time and safely. Less expensive is nice, too...and it ends up being less expensive after the sheeple pay to check their bags on United while I get it done for free with SWA.

-mini
 
Cav said:
Do they have brand loyalty or does SWA have loyalty in certain markets where they ran everyone else out of town and offer the best alternative? This could be said for a lot of airlines though but I wouldn't call it brand loyalty necessarily.
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Having 3 airports to choose from, I wouldn't say they've run everyone else out of town. I just prefer to know that the price I'm paying is the price when I buy my ticket.

-mini
 
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