Will the new generation of pilots aspire to captain an E190?

A

ahmed

Well-Known Member
Hi,

I'm still thinking about if I want to make aviation a career.. Has the progression from CFI -> Regionals -> Major come to a halt? And also if you had to take a wild guess, will quality of life continue to deteriorate (pensions cut, regional outsourcing to another regional, doritos for dinner at colgan) or does it have a chance of improving?

Thanks
 
Re: Will the new generation of pilots aspire to captain an E

Doritos are too expensive, chips for dinner? That is extravagant. I'm not joking either. Sad.
 
Re: Will the new generation of pilots aspire to captain an E

IMHO, the chances of the QOL improving substantially are slight. Gazing in to my crystal ball, in 20 years I see

1) Most if not all domestic flights operated by "code share partners". Wages, work rules, etc. for these partners will be somewhat better than current "regional" agreements, but well short of current (let alone pre-9/11) legacy contracts, even on small narrowbodies.

2) The "retirement wave" will occur starting in 2012, but deteriorating economic conditions (stagnation at best) in the US will more or less cancel out the positive effects. Some will move up, but not many. A lot of people will face the fact that they're liable to spend a long time in whatever seat they were in when the music stopped (2008 or so).

3) I will be a warlord.
 
Re: Will the new generation of pilots aspire to captain an E

i had BUGLES for lunch and LOVED IT.

maybe someday ill upgrade to SUN CHIPS.
 
Re: Will the new generation of pilots aspire to captain an E

Boris Badenov said:
3) I will be a warlord.
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This, is true.

Personally, I would not mind becoming a 190 Captain for my career. A MAINLINE 190 captain with MAINLINE pay at a place like B6 or US. If the question is would the next generation of pilots aspire to be a captain on a 190 making RJ pay, then I would also have to say yes, as there are surely those with SJS, and the 190 "looks" like a big jet.
 
Re: Will the new generation of pilots aspire to captain an E

It's obvious the majors will push more and more traffic into the "regionals". Regional traffic is now 51% of all domestic passenger travel.

For better or for worse that is the plan and until customers stop accepting that plan my opinion is the plan will continue.

Now comes Montreal based Bombardier and announces the all new CS300 regional jet to be delivered starting in mid 2015.

Of course this new "regional jet" (their words) seats 138 passengers. I'll let you figure out why they call it a regional jet.

Republic is the launch customer and has ordered 40 of these 138 seat regional jets with options to purchase 40 more.

So the question should be, will the new generation of pilots aspire to captain 138 seat "regional jets?"
 
Re: Will the new generation of pilots aspire to captain an E

JOEFRIDAY2 said:
Of course this new "regional jet" (their words) seats 138 passengers. I'll let you figure out why they call it a regional jet.

Republic is the launch customer and has ordered 40 of these 138 seat regional jets with options to purchase 40 more.

So the question should be, will the new generation of pilots aspire to captain 138 seat "regional jets?"
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Who exactly is calling it a "Regional Jet"?

This jet is definitely not being marketed as a Regional Jet, nor does any information from Bombardier state such. I highly doubt any "Regional" airline will be looking to acquire this aircraft without some serious Scope changes. Remember... that Republic is not looking at this aircraft for their contracted "regional" work.

Bob
 
Re: Will the new generation of pilots aspire to captain an E

Captain_Bob said:
Who exactly is calling it a "Regional Jet"?

This jet is definitely not being marketed as a Regional Jet, nor does any information from Bombardier state such. I highly doubt any "Regional" airline will be looking to acquire this aircraft without some serious Scope changes. Remember... that Republic is not looking at this aircraft for their contracted "regional" work.

Bob
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Exactly.... Plus we need to get away from this mind set that it is regional pilot versus mainline pilot. We need to try to make PILOTS pay better in general.... Regardless of jet, turboprop, regional, major, fractional, corporate etc.... Further more those whom have come before and constantly blame the "new generation" need to realize many of us are a result of what they allowed to slip away and stop passing the blame.... Until we can move pass some of those points, it may be very difficult to raise the bar as a whole.... HOPEFULLY it can happen... But I would doubt it is going to be easy by any means....
 
Re: Will the new generation of pilots aspire to captain an E

meyers9163 said:
Exactly.... Plus we need to get away from this mind set that it is regional pilot versus mainline pilot. We need to try to make PILOTS pay better in general.... Regardless of jet, turboprop, regional, major, fractional, corporate etc.... Further more those whom have come before and constantly blame the "new generation" need to realize many of us are a result of what they allowed to slip away and stop passing the blame.... Until we can move pass some of those points, it may be very difficult to raise the bar as a whole.... HOPEFULLY it can happen... But I would doubt it is going to be easy by any means....
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I disagree...if anything getting out of the mindset of regional vs. mainline got us into this 99 seat replacement jet fiasco in the first place. Mainline pay is pretty damn good. Is there room for improvement? Sure, but not as much room as regional pay, work-rules, and QoL. Anything over 50 seats (ideally everything) should be mainline metal, flown by mainline pilots, protected by mainline scopes. If they want to top us out at 60k-70k as a 50 seat captain fine, as long as there are plenty of spots for upward growth instead of the other way around. A lack of pay or QoL should not be the only reason a pilot group strikes. Look at our German counterparts, striking over -190's not staying on mainline property...

:guns:

Operating on zero sleep so...take it easy on me. :)
 
Re: Will the new generation of pilots aspire to captain an E

jhugz said:
I disagree...

Operating on zero sleep so...take it easy on me. :)
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Well first get some sleep... Secondly I will try but no guarantees.... :)

The whole scope issue seems to be one in which is a lost cause. Protecting it where it stands yes, but trying to recapture it will be an uphill battle. For whatever reason management still has the mindset that out sourcing jobs are the way to go. They can get the job done cheaper then doing it in house. Trying to get any flying over 50 seats back to mainline will be nothing short of a miracle. Let alone lets see when the next contract gets signed with a regional and what happens.... But I think there are still a few years before anyones contract is up still?? Mesa might be the soonest contract out there?

I think there are very FEW that disagree with you and would love for that to be the case. I am simply saying that this was the game many of us were presented and placed into. However the out sourcing came years before us. Many have move onto bigger and better things and now are the ones throwing the rocks at the place where they use to be..... However my thought is if you look to improve the industry as a whole, not segments, it will be the best move for pilots and thus the profession..... It is the ONLY job in which your experience gets you NOTHING!!!! :( So the question seems to be how do you force one to pay for experience and how do you get pilots to not be selfish??? :)

If you have those two answers, you might want to run for election next time around and lead our country because the past few men seem to have done such a great job ;)!!!!!
 
Re: Will the new generation of pilots aspire to captain an E

It's interesting that folks think the concept 'Regional Jet' is still around.

Here at the Beagle, they're taking the 'RJ' and 'Regional Jet' designation off the engine cowls.

It would seem that the line between declared 'Regional' airlines and mainlines is once again being blurred.
 
Re: Will the new generation of pilots aspire to captain an E

The only way I can see scope working back in is if Major's push for it in their contracts. If they are willing to go strike like Lufthansa so to protect scope and the future of the industry. However w/ the Major's already giving up scope I feel as if they won't have a leg to stand on in contract negotiations if it goes to the NMB.
 
Re: Will the new generation of pilots aspire to captain an E

It is sad that the regionals are getting bigger and begining to fly main line equipment. IMO anything over 50 seats should be mainline flying. 138 seat plane being flown at the regional level is nuts. What's next? A 757 or Airbus being flown for peanuts.
 
Re: Will the new generation of pilots aspire to captain an E

Bandit_Driver said:
It is sad that the regionals are getting bigger and begining to fly main line equipment. IMO anything over 50 seats should be mainline flying. 138 seat plane being flown at the regional level is nuts. What's next? A 757 or Airbus being flown for peanuts.
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To answer your question, yes.

Republic will bring it first, I imagine, unless their pilot group really steps up.

Expect it. They're dissolving the Midwest brand and replacing it with 'different' type aircraft that are nearly as large.

Expect Frontier to get similar treatment soon.
 
Re: Will the new generation of pilots aspire to captain an E

not trying to stir up anything here, but where did the "anything over 50 seats should be mainline" come from? Is the 50 seats just an arbitrary number? or because of the CRJ-200 that has 50 seats...IIRC?
 
Re: Will the new generation of pilots aspire to captain an E

As long as there are people who say "I love flying so much I'd do it for nothing" you can expect that airlines are going to take advantage of that mindset.

Hell, man, some organizations have even taken it further, making their "employee" pay to sit in the right seat! And people do it.

It's kind of hard to boost pay and work conditions when you've got a situation like that and people who will justify scabbing.
 
Re: Will the new generation of pilots aspire to captain an E

I hope they continue keeping pilots poor for a few more years. It's the only thing that will make pilots angry and demand more pay. Right now I've seen too much of the opposite to believe anything will change in the next 5 years.
 
Re: Will the new generation of pilots aspire to captain an E

mshunter said:
If you need an evil sidekick or a henchman, count me in. But only as long as I get to carry a gun.:D
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I just want to be the one that steals the rice from the poor people, and claims it as the property of Boris.
 
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