Why freight over regionals???

Adam2006

Adam2006

Well-Known Member
Just curious why people choose freight over regionals? It appears companies are requiring more hours than regionals to get hired on at, is this true? Is this still a stepping-stone to a regional? What about the 1000hr PIC over 12,500lbs. requirement for the majors? Aren't most freight companies flying under this weight(I'm obviously not talking about UPS, Fedex, etc)? Thanks, for your replies!
 
....because sometimes the journey is so much better than the destination.

With the little flying that I have done I feel it would make me a better pilot in the long run. This is also the route I want to take in a few more years. In 6 months you can be PIC on a B-99 for AMF getting your 1000 hours of Multi turbine PIC long before you would be close to a Captain bid at many regionals. Plus you dont have to play the "lower the bar to keep your flying" game against your fellow pilots. As far as advancement only JetBlue has a weight requirement. Pilots have gone from AirNet (with Lears) and Ameriflight (with TurboProps) and other Turboprop 135 operators to the majors. Heck 13 years ago the only jets were flown at the "Majors" (Comair got the first RJ in the US in 1993). Thousands of pilots got their first jet time in 737s coming from B-99s, 1900s, Saabs, ATRs etc. If it was done then why not now? It was posted a while ago on here the New hire makeup of an Alaska new hire class. Guess what? Half of them were flying props before the move.

If you really want to get down to scrounging for time, there was a recent Continental new hire who had ZERO multi turbine time, not even as SIC, All of his turbine time was in a Caravan and his multi was in a piston.
 
Where do I start...ahh never mind, I'll piss people off and write a book on it. We'll just say so I can look in the mirror. This is for me only, YMMV. And, no I will not be going to a regional after this...I will get out of flying first. We have had some people come here (Airnet) and then go to the mini majors but I've never understood that one.

Oh well, good luck.
 
txpilot said:
Where do I start...ahh never mind, I'll piss people off and write a book on it. We'll just say so I can look in the mirror. This is for me only, YMMV. And, no I will not be going to a regional after this...I will get out of flying first. We have had some people come here (Airnet) and then go to the mini majors but I've never understood that one.

Oh well, good luck.
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Copy that......besides chicks dig freight hounds...just ask my GF - shes an airline pilot.
 
Oldtown, my goal is a major(unique, I know), and I'm concerned about being competitive down the road. Do you think having thousands of hours in a lance or baron would be desirable for a place like southwest. thanks, for your help.
 
Adam,
I'll take this question bud.
Scenario:
Pilot A has 1000 total time, 200 multi and is hired by XYZ regional. In his 18 months with XYZ regional he logs 1400 mutli engine SIC and is furloughed. He then gets hired by ABC regional where he logs an additional 1000 hours mutli engine SIC but can not upgrade due to his seniority #/base/attrition etc.

Pilot B has 1200 total time, 25 multi and is hired by ABC Freight Inc. During his 18 months with ABC Freight he logs 300 hours single engine and 1200 hours mutli engine PIC.

Three years down the road the two go for a job interview:
Pilot A-1000 PIC 2400 SIC (hasn't touched the controls in five years)
Pilot B- 1225 MULTI ENGINE PIC, 2700 PIC total.

Which looks more attractive? If you want to go to a major, then go to a regional, but you're putting all your eggs in one basket. If you want more information buy my book :)
 
See this thread: http://www.jetcareers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26319 and Alchemy's post on it to see why not to go to a regional. I feel bad for all the regional guys/gals. It's sad to see this industry go where it's going.

CaptChris, the SIC's in the regionals fly regularly, but SIC time is just not as valuable as it once was considering how many mini majors are furloughing, losing people to attrition, etc. There are a ton of CRJ/ERJ SIC's looking to get out of where they are.

Just my observations, don't take personally. Any regional guys want to chime in with why go to regionals over freight??? Equal opportunity, and all.
 
txpilot said:
We have had some people come here (Airnet) and then go to the mini majors but I've never understood that one.
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Granted I'm not a commercial pilot of any sorts. But I do want to become a major pilot (I think), yet I've always thought it would be fun to fly in the middle of the night, single pilot IFR, in an old airplane, with some "bumps" along the way to drop off some cargo. It just seems really appealing to me. Now maby that's not how the cargo outfits are in reality, but in my mind, that's how I see places like airnet, and that's where I'd like to be for a good chunk of time.
 
Just wondering what are some freight job around MI? I do know airnet has some runs around Detroit.

adreamer
 
CaptChris said:
Three years down the road the two go for a job interview:
Pilot A-1000 PIC 2400 SIC (hasn't touched the controls in five years)
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This may come as a shock, but the FO's get to fly just as much as the CA's at my airline. We generally fly 2, then do the PNF thing for 2 legs.

As for picking a freight vs. regional, I think there are way too many variables that go into that to make a choice. Family aspects, advacement opportunity, top out pay, etc. all go into that. I had the opportunity to ride with a few LabQuest guys for a few nights, and it was interesting and looked like a lot of fun. $$ talks in their case, I suspect most freight operations flying bonanzas, barons, TBM's and PC-12's don't start you at $60+k and top out at well over $115k...at least you have that option (for similar potential earnings) at most of the jet regionals.

However, the bigger freight companies certainly offer that and quicker advancement (such as Airnet - from piston to lears to the well-paying jetride). That, IMO, would trump a regional any day if you could swing it. I kick myself from time to time for going to MAPD to instruct instead of toughing it out another couple months to go to a place like airnet, ameriflight, etc. etc.

However, my life certainly isn't bad, I will go to work 8 days this month, 2 of which I picked up for overtime. I might pick up another 3 or 4 day depending on how lazy I am feeling to make another $500 or so extra this month (that's at first year pay). Not great, even embarassing, but that option is there. With a real job you wouldn't have to pick up extra time...
 
John Herreshoff said:
I think what Kelvin is asking is whether it's like Airnet's SIC Program where THEY pay YOU
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Just remember if you get into one of those "SIC" programs, you can only log the time when you manipulate the controls, ie PIC. You cannot log SIC in an aircraft that does not require one, like a baron.
 
John Herreshoff said:
Take it up with Airnet, it's legal what they do.
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Willing to bet your Certificate on that?


Logging SIC/PIC time: here's howIn addition to hiring pilot in command (PIC) qualified pilots, AirNet Systems, Inc. offers a program by which pilots serve as first officers (FOs) on light, twin-engine, piston-powered aircraft operating under 14 CFR 135. Candidates for this particular program have less than 1,200 hours total flight time and/or less than certain categories of flight time such as cross country. As noted in 14 CFR 135.243(c), 1,200 hours total flight time, is the minimum total time a pilot must have to be assigned as pilot in command in IFR conditions while operating under 14 CFR 135. In the same regulation, minimums also are established for cross country, night, and instrument flight time. No minimum PIC time is specified. The minimum grade of pilot certificate for PIC or second in command (SIC) is Commercial. AirNet’s first officer program allows pilots to build their flight time to 1,200 hours and/or to meet the minimums established for the categories mentioned above.
Here is how a pilot utilizes the flight time accrued in AirNet’s program: 14 CFR 135 subparts G and H establish the requirements for testing and training of flight crew members in each type of aircraft to which they are assigned to duty by an air carrier operating under 14 CFR 135. For a flight crew member to be assigned duty, the air carrier and the pilot must comply with all requirements. This, of course, allows the pilot to be on board the aircraft as a flight crew member.
Since the pilot can now legally be a flight crew member, the pilot also can manipulate the aircraft’s flight controls. How a pilot logs the flight time is found in 14 CFR 61.51(e)1. If a pilot assigned as SIC manipulates the flight controls of an aircraft in which that pilot is rated, that pilot may log the time as PIC. This does NOT change who is assigned as pilot in command. Operations conducted under 14 CFR 135 can have only ONE assigned PIC, regardless of who is manipulating the flight controls. The assigned PIC must be assigned in writing and remains the pilot in command throughout the flight. Therefore, when the SIC manipulates the flight controls, that pilot may log PIC flight time. The only time the second in command can log SIC flight time is while that person is serving as second in command on an aircraft requiring more than one pilot by its type certificate, or when required by the regulations under which the flight is conducted. Obviously, AirNet’s light piston twins do not require more than one pilot by the type certificates, however, there are conditions under 14 CFR 135 operations which do require two pilots regardless of the aircraft type. Examples include takeoffs below 1,800 RVR, carrying passengers in IFR conditions without an autopilot, and whenever the flight crew is being assigned to more than eight hours of flight time. In most cases, even these requirements do not apply to operations at AirNet, therefore, the SIC logs pilot in command time while being the sole manipulator of the flight controls and logs total time only, when not manipulating the flight controls.
This program and method of logging flight time is supported not only by Federal Aviation Regulations, but also by legal interpretations. Keep in mind, however, that as pilots move through their careers and apply for other jobs, certain organizations may require specific conditions of pilot in command time. One major airline, for example, has very specific instructions on its application that state pilot in command time is ONLY the time for which you were responsible for or in charge of the aircraft, not merely sole manipulator of the flight controls.In summary, there is a difference between who is assigned as pilot in command and who may be manipulating the flight controls and logging PIC time. At times, both pilots may be logging PIC time because one is the assigned pilot in command (acting PIC as provided in 14 CFR 61.51(e)1(iii)) and the other may be manipulating the flight controls but assigned as second in command.
In most cases at AirNet, an assigned SIC is either logging the time as pilot in command when he or she is the sole manipulator of the flight controls, logging the flight time as total time only when not manipulating the flight controls, or as SIC if required to be there either by the aircraft type certificate or by the regulations under which the operations are conducted.
Pilots who still have questions about how the AirNet second in command program works may contact us at (877) 247-6386.
— Clair Morris,
Director of Training, AirNet Express
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Freight or regionals, its all the same •. If you're in a hurry to get to a major then try the freight gig, more pic. I think everyone should get some pic time in a pos before they become an fo on junglejet. That way you have some decision making skillz. If you want a higher qol then do the regional thing without commuting. Id rather have wheelsup's schedule.
 
John Herreshoff said:
I think what Kelvin is asking is whether it's like Airnet's SIC Program where THEY pay YOU
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I took it to mean - "is this a PFT type program, or is it considered paying for hours a la timebuilding".

dugie8 said:
Just remember if you get into one of those "SIC" programs, you can only log the time when you manipulate the controls, ie PIC.
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Dugie8 - what you posted and the article you posted don't conincide. According to Airnet, you can log the time you are not manipulating the controls as well, but simply as TT. Did you read the article you posted?

I did, because I've posted it several times on here myself.
 
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