Who killed non-rev shoulder season?

[Sculprit]

So did UA take first away? I only bagged it once. SFO-PHX i think...

Intl first class, its last iteration known as Global First went away about a decade ago. Domestic First is still a thing at UAL. NB aircraft and no lie-flat seats. As @BobDDuck mentioned, it’s really just a premium econ seat in a foreign carrier.

Polaris/ j-class / business class is the lie-flat product offered on the wide bodies and a few of the new NBs; 321xlr, some Neos and possibly the Max 10.

 

[tcco94]

Alaska decided the way they were going to make Atmos popular was give Titanium members free upgrades on international flights. There is no such thing as non rev in business class on international anymore, and there wasn't any non rev domestically in business class in their system to begin with because of the limited premium seats and the fact that they upgrade every status member.

It's kind of sad going from the system I was under (pretty easy to score international business class standby) to this one, but it's just the way it is with airlines monetizing absolutely everything.

Told my wife it will only get worse with attempting to standby business class ever again. I don’t think we are ever going back. I get the argument of they pay our wages and etc, so I will refrain from bitching about it. But I just find it a bit sad seeing the degradation of the benefits we have in this industry. I mean, I can’t even go in my airlines lounge anymore lol

It’s always too good to be true. Oh well, if I want the lieflat I’ll just have to fork out the $ for it I guess and call it a day. Someone else will…

 

[Kingairer]

AA is the last to have first class, and it is going away as soon as they can get the cabin refurbished. I was lucky enough to get the family all up in first class on the 777-300 this year from LHR. Its a slightly better seat, swivels out to the aisle, more FAs per passenger, but best off all is its an isolated cabin, just 8 seats, and you dont see anyone else. Shame its going away, but I understand why.

 

[BobDDuck]

Sorry. I’m just grumpy because of the certain few HALs on APC. Especially that vaxxedtothemax dude.

He's got a... reputation.

 

[word302]

Realistically, I'd say the product and the service are pretty on par with Delta One and United Polaris. The cabin crews are either very senior (the top end that voluntarily moved up there from the LA base or out from HNL) or very junior (new hires and the bottom end that got force moved over). The issue around blaming the FAs seems to be company and Alaska AFA generated because HAL AFA complained about the service level being required. Some of them seemed surprised that they get scheduled breaks on these flights.

I've flown as a paying passenger in the back once, and as a non rev up front once on the routes with the new service. It seems like it was designed by people who had never flown on a widebody aircraft before, let alone done service on one. The timings and positions of where the FAs need to be to get stuff done at certain times just doesn't work. The products are ok, but they don't work with the prep timing and storage, or for what he service requires the FAs to do, it just isn't possible with the number they've got on board. I think, because it's HAL crew's doing it now, it's been pretty easy for Alaska FA's to just say oh, they are being lazy or they are unskilled and that catches on, which plays right into the Company's hands.

Figured it was more complicated than "They're just being lazy".

 

[///AMG]

Figured it was more complicated than "They're just being lazy".

I feel like this is always the case. I kinda equate FAs a lot of times to Sailors, which is probably unfair to both of those groups, but it is really easy for folks to s**** on those who are "unskilled" in their "skilled" eyes, and yet bust their balls every day to make it all happen. The presumption of "laziness" is baked into all vertically oriented business models I think, when the comfortable "management" (or in this case, flight deck) types start wondering what the answer to a complex problem might be.

 

[ahw01]

He's got a... reputation.

I like him already

 

[BobDDuck]

I like him already

Not in a good way. At all. He's one of the few captains I flew with as an FO that I refused to be the PF on any legs for a few trips because he was just going to tell me how to fly anyway... or just do stuff for me.

 

[HeyEng]

AA is the last to have first class, and it is going away as soon as they can get the cabin refurbished. I was lucky enough to get the family all up in first class on the 777-300 this year from LHR. Its a slightly better seat, swivels out to the aisle, more FAs per passenger, but best off all is its an isolated cabin, just 8 seats, and you dont see anyone else. Shame its going away, but I understand why.

Somewhat unrelated but some folks aren't happy w/ AA doing away with "First Class" (in a round about way). Apparently there are still some folks that had bought the "unlimited" first class flight pass that was offered in the past and those benefits are being watered down (I assume?).

American Airlines Is Ending First Class, But Its $250,000 Lifetime Pass Lives On

American Airlines retires Flagship First while lifetime AAirpass holders retain eligible travel benefits through the cabin change.

aviationa2z.com

 

[ahw01]

Somewhat unrelated but some folks aren't happy w/ AA doing away with "First Class" (in a round about way). Apparently there are still some folks that had bought the "unlimited" first class flight pass that was offered in the past and those benefits are being watered down (I assume?).

American Airlines Is Ending First Class, But Its $250,000 Lifetime Pass Lives On

American Airlines retires Flagship First while lifetime AAirpass holders retain eligible travel benefits through the cabin change.

aviationa2z.com

The Rise and Fall of the Lifetime Ticket Airline: A Cautionary Tale | Altitude Blog by BlackJet

Explore the rise and fall of the lifetime ticket airline, revealing key lessons on sustainability in business. Read on for insights and cautionary advice.

www.blackjet.com

 

[bike21]

Yes, honestly a lot of this thread strikes me as stereotypical legacy pilot "my gold bars are too heavy" complaining.

Or simply that a once touted benefit has eroded into a shell of its former self. Many of us came from the regionals when that was the biggest benefit when we were dirt poor. Kind of hard to give that up, especially when travel is a huge part of one’s life. Guess that’s why I was the travel committee of one back at the regional. This stuff still matters.

And not to mention the other 80,000 employees at my airline who don’t make pilot money. It ain’t all about us.

 

[Roger Roger]

And not to mention the other 80,000 employees at my airline who don’t make pilot money. It ain’t all about us.

Came here to say this.

 

[ChasenSFO]

Some airlines definitely seem better at filling planes than others. A lot of my United friends seem to have no problem getting Polaris, getting the equivalent on my airline is such a rarity I always figure if you’re going to end up in row 47, you might as well buy a ticket and know you’re getting there.

Also, because at United people have to pay for premium seats. Unless they're using a vacation pass. So that means if you're willing to pay a lot of times even with less senority, you'd get it. I prefer UA for exactly this reason, tho I got first class more often than not on DL SFO-MSP at 0100. But that's probably why they suspended the flight lol.

Also, I'd like to point out that tickets in other countries are cheap, another trick is go ANYWHERE you can get a good seat then just buy a ticket. When FCO filled up, I bought FCO-LIS-MAD (biz class on TAP because it was cheap af) then got Premium Plus MAD-IAD (no one next to me) after a night at my buddy's place in MAD. IAD-SFO looked like garbage so I rented a car to BWI and had 80 open seats home. All in like $350 which is better than playing middle seat roulette on DL/UA out of FCO then finding a way home. Flexibility and a mindset of "I'm already traveling so cheap, what's $350?" will get you far. I often buy last minute tickets to shuttle around EU, the middle east and Asia. They're usually very reasonable, and I'm saying this as someone who avoids ULCCs.

Also, i usually travel around when I can get places rather than specific dates. If have to go specific dates, then i'm very willing to buy a ticket, even on other carriers where miles don't help me, hopefully combine it with free first class if possible. For example, I have my vacation days until 30OCT, but 31OCT Polaris is affordable from MNL. So, I'll be a day late to work. Flexibility lol.

 

[JordanD]

Or simply that a once touted benefit has eroded into a shell of its former self. Many of us came from the regionals when that was the biggest benefit when we were dirt poor. Kind of hard to give that up, especially when travel is a huge part of one’s life. Guess that’s why I was the travel committee of one back at the regional. This stuff still matters.

And not to mention the other 80,000 employees at my airline who don’t make pilot money. It ain’t all about us.

I worked an airline ramp for a contractor that didn’t offer us flight benefits and generally sucked, before I moved to the same job with an airline that had flight benefits. Made it an entirely different job as a young dude, and at least provided some motivation to stay despite the crappy pay. Not to mention a lot of the trips I took as a regional FO before they started making reasonable money.

 

[JordanD]

garbage so I rented a car to BWI

Yeah, I ain’t doing all that

 

[Springer]

For all of you that thinks it is bad now, wait till you retire! Since selling the plane, still can't convince the wife to buy D1 tickets even though we have no kids to leave $$$$ when we croke.

 

[ChasenSFO]

Yeah, I ain’t doing all that

I mean if you'd rather be in a middle seat (if you get on) for 5+ hours rather than drive 1.5 hours for a wide open comfortable flight, you can. A drive is better than sitting in gloomy horrible hallway hell IAD even 30 minutes IMO. Just listen to music and chill in a nice brand new car. When IAH used to eff up, I'd drive to AUS. Never was a big deal to me in exchange for free and comfortable flights.

 

[bike21]

Trip report, tldr: we made it but not without some shenanigans. Well worth it for just over a month on the ground in Croatia and Slovenia.

On the way out, we first delayed a day due to absolute horrific loads and desiring a little more time to get ready. Next day, got C+ seats to JFK and JFK-CDG was looking good that night with a backup or two in hand. Boarded up in DEN, pushed back and we sat. And sat. Great. Sure enough, left engine wasn't happy after startup so back to the gate we went.

Since we committed the non-rev sin of checking a bag, sadly we couldn't quite be our normal flexible selves. JetBlue had a flight we could have made but the checked bag of course sunk us. So we hung out while the delay dragged on. Eventually said screw it, let's go home and try again another day. Went and had a surprisingly not overpriced beer at the Westin bar while we waited for our bag to make it back to baggage claim. Good news was, we now had more time to fine tune our pack job and snuggle the cats.

Our next attempt was DEN-MSP-AMS, but MSP-AMS went from 11 open in D1 to 0 within 18 hours. Just...how? Ended up DEN-DTW-CDG and again had a decent shot at D1 but once again got skunked. C'est la vie. So we lived our best lives in row 55 to Paris but at least we had the middle row to ourselves and the FAs kept our steerage swill nicely topped off.

After a fun night in Paris we hopped on Croatia Air and as usual purchased some treats for the crew. The lead FA was super nice and put us in the empty biz section and hooked us up with plenty of bubbly and snacks on our way to Split.

On the return, the loads out of Ljubljana weren't great as we failed to realize there was a marathon that final weekend of our journey. So LJU-ZRH-AMS. Also Swiss/Baltic are super uhhh...'Swiss' on bag size and restrictions. Usually for non-revs it's not a problem but they made us pay an extra $90 CHF for the extra bag to ZRH. KLM to AMS? No worries of course.

Then out of AMS our first choice was to MSP on a Trash Panda with plenty of D1 suites available. So of course that went on a rolling delay with some sort of issue up front. At this point, we'd had enough travel shenangigans and just wanted to get home. Gave up on that and quickly changed our listing to DTW, finally got some D1 action and made it home.

Probably the most interesting non-rev experience we've had in a few years but sometimes that's the way the cookie crumbles.

 

[Sculprit]

Probably the most interesting non-rev experience we've had in a few years but sometimes that's the way the cookie crumbles.

That’s awesome! Glad it worked out mostly well for you. Your post is getting me stoked for our Europe NonRev trip next week.

 

[bike21]

That’s awesome! Glad it worked out mostly well for you. Your post is getting me stoked for our Europe NonRev trip next week.

Thanks! May your trip be full of lay flats, good wine and no mechanicals!

Also forgot to mention on that last leg home, the rolling mechanical 350 to MSP ultimately canceled, so were VERY glad that we switched flights on that one. Had that 6th sense non-rev feeling.