Where to go to Dispatcher school?

[Kev]

You know the day I graduated one of the instructors took my study guide and highlighted those pages and said "learn this, you will be asked on interviews". So I'm not sure if it's necessarily a bad thing that they expect you to learn just a little bit on your own. Also it's not a particularly tough subject.

When I taught classes dispatchers (and pilots), did flight plan audits, and was on a Dispatch ASAP ERC, the two most frequent issues were:

- Interpretation of weather information (Reading a Forecast)
- Listing an an alternate below minimums per C055.

So, I must have been a terrible initial instructor because with some of these individuals they would comprehend it in class after going over it a while (especially depending on where they came from be it airline or certification program or both), on the exams, and on a competency check but would blow it on a flight with their signature.

Sure, they really did know how to do it if you pressed them on it. But someone, somehow, somewhere along the way failed to emphasize how much it mattered and that complacency stuck. He/she perhaps learned to dismiss the importance very early on as demonstrated by the instructor mentioned in the previous post. You'd be surprised to learn how hard that type of conceptual complacency is hard to correct. With a violation, it's not entirely fair to place the blame on a course or school, there are a combination of factors here, in personality, workload, fatigue, any number of things.

But fundamentals, of course, matter greatly. And I agree wholeheartedly with everything as MT has put it thus far. There is no possible, conceivable way, based on my experience and observation in this career, that where you go to school to earn your certificate does not matter. This is not to say that the best schools do not turn out poor dispatchers. There are more intangibles required to supplement an education to be successful in this career, we all agree.

 

[Kev]

This, for posterity to consider. If I don't make one more post on this topic any more on this forum, here's my golden nail hammered into the Church door (even though I'm Catholic). I won't even touch curriculum itself here, just comparing A to B. This was my thought process when I was in your shoes, this is not to denigrate any of my top choices at the time.

When considering your options between two choices (whichever schools they may be), with all else being equal in your mind:

Why on Earth Wouldn't You:

Pick a school with the best industry reputation.

Ask some dispatchers (you've seen many responses here on this forum).

Ask some flight control managers. To have heard of this profession you likely know someone at an airline. (Ask if they can get you a number)

Ask the schools which airlines they have been directly affiliated with to provide training. Assess your opinion of those airlines.

Leverage the networking capability available to you in your choice when landing your first job or those subsequent:

Dispatch managers earned their certificates as well.

--If school A has been around for 20 years and school B has been around for 5, there's a greater chance they went to school A

--If you've verified the reputation of a school, then their graduates demonstrated competency to garner that reputation

The dispatch manager may grant some greater consideration to one program versus another

--Particularly if he/she is either (a) a graduate or (b) recognizes the competency that has been demonstrated by grads

Your excellent performance at a school that is well-connected throughout the industry may result in a recommendation

Take the harder road to prepare yourself for your new, noble, responsible, and rewarding career

Old axiom: "You get out of it what you put into it."

The job is challenging. Start by avoiding complacency at the outset and apply yourself entirely. Expect the same of your school.

Do you want to absorb as much information as you can and apply it to your new career?

In your research toward the school's reputation, have you heard about a program "taking it easy" by glossing over concepts or presenting little challenge as you've heard? If so, ask yourself: Would you rather be a Marine or a Mall Cop?


You might turn out just fine if you choose the wrong option. And there may be many other factors which may lead you to choose different than the concept posed above. But, unless there are very significant circumstances, why on Earth would you?

For the record, the school I chose beat everyone on this decision matrix by a mile. And in every interview I've had, I was asked about my experience there.

I just spent a significant portion of my evening typing this to you, prospective dispatcher. It is because I can say with the firmest, most fervent belief that your career will be a lifetime of making good judgement calls, and you should make the first one your attendance at Sheffield.

 

[Luigi]

This, for posterity to consider. If I don't make one more post on this topic any more on this forum, here's my golden nail hammered into the Church door (even though I'm Catholic). I won't even touch curriculum itself here, just comparing A to B. This was my thought process when I was in your shoes, this is not to denigrate any of my top choices at the time.

When considering your options between two choices (whichever schools they may be), with all else being equal in your mind:

Why on Earth Wouldn't You:

Pick a school with the best industry reputation.

Ask some dispatchers (you've seen many responses here on this forum).

Ask some flight control managers. To have heard of this profession you likely know someone at an airline. (Ask if they can get you a number)

Ask the schools which airlines they have been directly affiliated with to provide training. Assess your opinion of those airlines.

Leverage the networking capability available to you in your choice when landing your first job or those subsequent:

Dispatch managers earned their certificates as well.

--If school A has been around for 20 years and school B has been around for 5, there's a greater chance they went to school A

--If you've verified the reputation of a school, then their graduates demonstrated competency to garner that reputation

The dispatch manager may grant some greater consideration to one program versus another

--Particularly if he/she is either (a) a graduate or (b) recognizes the competency that has been demonstrated by grads

Your excellent performance at a school that is well-connected throughout the industry may result in a recommendation

Take the harder road to prepare yourself for your new, noble, responsible, and rewarding career

Old axiom: "You get out of it what you put into it."

The job is challenging. Start by avoiding complacency at the outset and apply yourself entirely. Expect the same of your school.

Do you want to absorb as much information as you can and apply it to your new career?

In your research toward the school's reputation, have you heard about a program "taking it easy" by glossing over concepts or presenting little challenge as you've heard? If so, ask yourself: Would you rather be a Marine or a Mall Cop?


You might turn out just fine if you choose the wrong option. And there may be many other factors which may lead you to choose different than the concept posed above. But, unless there are very significant circumstances, why on Earth would you?

For the record, the school I chose beat everyone on this decision matrix by a mile. And in every interview I've had, I was asked about my experience there.

I just spent a significant portion of my evening typing this to you, prospective dispatcher. It is because I can say with the firmest, most fervent belief that your career will be a lifetime of making good judgement calls, and you should make the first one your attendance at Sheffield.

Unless of course you already live in Dallas, in which case go to IFOD, or if you happen to live in Colorado go to Jeppesen.

 

[womanpilot73]

Come on people; does anybody else here think this entire argument is absolutely ridiculous? Let me give some advice for anyone looking for school. Is there a school near you? If so, that may be the school for you. If not, where is the easiest school for you to get to? Good, hope we can all just agree that this entire thing is just a little bit stupid. Pay your money, go to school and get your license, and not much else matters.

Remember, this thread is for people looking to get into dispatch, not for existing dispatchers. It wasn't that long ago for me and I remember asking the same questions on here. I think it's natural for someone looking at a career move to want to choose the best school possible, in the hopes that not only will you get a quality education but that it will help you land a job. I think it's important for people to be proactive when choosing a career and obtaining as much information as possible before diving in. And discussions on this forum are great for people looking to get into this industry. I found that reading everyone's views, even on which schools they supported and why, was very helpful to me. In the end, I chose a school with a good reputation in the industry that worked best for my personal situation. I think that's the takeaway here - choose a proven school that fits your needs.

 

[pljenkins]

That would be it. Something every dispatcher is gonna encounter in a interview skills test. It's dispatch 101 and it's as likely to be on a test as the definition of operational control. Why they don't teach it is beyond me and a huge slight against that school.

Most schools don't teach it because it's not an FAR. The FAR determining alternate minimums is part 91.169. At pretty much every airline around this is supplemented by an ops spec that allows for derived alternate minimums, but teaching ops specs it's beyond the purview of the training curricula spelled out for dispatch schools. It is the airlines responsibility to cover ops specs during initial, so in effect you are asking a question to your applicants they won't necessarily know unless they have experience, effectively biasing your interview process to eliminate those with no prior dispatch experience.

 

[pljenkins]

My approach to interviewing candidates was a bit different then MT's. When I considered a candidate I put much less emphasis on knowledge, especially for candidates fresh out of school, and a much heavier weight on your personality and work ethic. Reason being, you've obviously just got done getting grilled for several hours by a FAA examiner about your knowledge and you are proving you have the appropriate knowledge by presenting me with your license. There is little value in investing my time making sure the examiner did his job. Besides I'm going to teach it all to you again in initial.

 

[MT]

This would mean that every dispatch interview I have ever been on is biased to eliminate those with no experience.

I think it's perfectly fair to expect a dispatch school to fulfil their obligations to the appendix of part 65 which includes part 121 and general operating manuals (OPSSPECS). Since 121.623 references OPSSPECS derived alternate minimums then I think such a question is fair game on a dispatch test. Especially since IFOD is the only school I know of that does not teach the subject.

It's shame on the school, not the candidate for not teaching it. We came to the realization that an IFOD graduate would not have this knowledge and would fail that portion of the dispatch test. Thus it wasn't disqualifing, just disappointing.

I understand your philosophy behind hiring and agree with a lot of it. Attitude and fit are huge pieces of the decision. You do have me pegged correctly that I view practical knowledge as very important too. If I have some fail a very basic dispatch skills test, especially after being grilled by an examiner, the I'm going to be very concerned how the candidate is going to fare during initial. It would be a waste of company resources to hire this person and train them only to fail his desk checks. It would be even worse to have this person barely squeak by and then have to file ASAP after ASAP for repetitive errors.

 

[womanpilot73]

Most schools don't teach it because it's not an FAR. The FAR determining alternate minimums is part 91.169. At pretty much every airline around this is supplemented by an ops spec that allows for derived alternate minimums, but teaching ops specs it's beyond the purview of the training curricula spelled out for dispatch schools. It is the airlines responsibility to cover ops specs during initial, so in effect you are asking a question to your applicants they won't necessarily know unless they have experience, effectively biasing your interview process to eliminate those with no prior dispatch experience.

Jeppesen does teach 91.169 (600/2 - 800/2) for deriving alt mins, but puts heavy emphasis that the op specs are controlling. I'll admit that until going through initial at my first gig, I didn't have a complete understanding of the 1 navaid / 2 navaid rule. By the same token, I have met experienced dispatchers that still don't have a correct understanding of it. In addition to that, during proving runs at my current shop, the dispatch fed said that it's one of the most misunderstood rules. Doesn't seem that difficult to me but what do I know... ;-)

 

[pljenkins]

Jeppesen does teach 91.169 (600/2 - 800/2) for deriving alt mins, but puts heavy emphasis that the op specs are controlling. I'll admit that until going through initial at my first gig, I didn't have a complete understanding of the 1 navaid / 2 navaid rule. By the same token, I have met experienced dispatchers that still don't have a correct understanding of it. In addition to that, during proving runs at my current shop, the dispatch fed said that it's one of the most misunderstood rules. Doesn't seem that difficult to me but what do I know... ;-)

It's all in how the information is presented to you. At my first gig I couldn't wrap my head around 3585 until the instructor presented it in a different way, then the light bulb suddenly went on.

MT I certainly can appreciate that it would behoove schools to mention ops specs that are almost universal to 121 operations such as derived alternates, 3585 and the general philosophy of C70, but try to remember that there is already a metric • ton of information these guys are trying to digest in a short 6 weeks, and the goal is to get these kids through the FAA practical. The FAA examiner is not (or at least should never) ask questions that are not a part of the examination, so for the purposes of getting these candidates their licenses, delving into ops specs in any more detail then simply mentioning that they exist is superfluous at best and horribly confusing at worst. If an FAA examiner asks a candidate what alternate minimums are and he starts up with deriving he's failed the examination. Sure everyone knows what he's talking about but that's not the correct answer to the test at hand. Answering an FAA examiner question should be like answering the police. Answer the question as asked with as few words as necessary. Anyway with that in mind I don't expect a totally green candidate to correctly answer questions pertaining to ops specs.

 

[BayouMLU]

See, now I'm curious. What did you ask in interviews that IFOD does not cover?

If I had to guess I assume he's referring to the 1 navaid and 2 navaid rule?

We covered this at IFOD.

 

[Troy McClure]

Agreed. They don't care as much........ Not once have they ever inquired about what dispatch school I went to......

And that's why they are kicking themselves today.....

 

[kgolden]

So, I have been researching about becoming a dispatcher for the past couple months, and I understand that Sheffield, Jeppesen, and IFOD seem to be the big three. My question is whether it would be better to attend the 5-6 week training offered by these schools, or if it would be okay to do a distance-learning program like with Flamingo Air/AGS? Financially, for me it would be better to do a distance learning, but if I will learn more and be better prepared to get my certificate and find a job, I would be willing to attend one of the three that I mentioned. Again, this might be dependent on each individual's learning style and how they learn best. As far as I can tell, it doesn't really seem to matter which specific school you go to (just do what works best for you), but I would be interested to get advice on in-person versus distance-learning training programs. Thanks for your help!

 

[pljenkins]

I agree with you that in the grand scheme of things which one you go to is largely irrelevant in the eyes of hiring managers, though there are some here that will vigorously argue that point. As a former hiring manager I can tell you that I couldn't care less, and that seems the case with all of the dispatch managers I've had occasion to speak with.

Choosing and immersive course vs. home study really depends on your ability to remain disciplined. I personally thing that a 6 week course is superior because you are in an environment where you can ask direct questions, there are fewer distractions and many times the course is better structured. I don't know if this is still the case with the schools you mentioned, but when I went many moons ago the schools had some pull with a few regionals that would help get you in front of hiring managers prior to the end of the course, potentially resulting in a job offer before graduation.

 

[womanpilot73]

So, I have been researching about becoming a dispatcher for the past couple months, and I understand that Sheffield, Jeppesen, and IFOD seem to be the big three. My question is whether it would be better to attend the 5-6 week training offered by these schools, or if it would be okay to do a distance-learning program like with Flamingo Air/AGS? Financially, for me it would be better to do a distance learning, but if I will learn more and be better prepared to get my certificate and find a job, I would be willing to attend one of the three that I mentioned. Again, this might be dependent on each individual's learning style and how they learn best. As far as I can tell, it doesn't really seem to matter which specific school you go to (just do what works best for you), but I would be interested to get advice on in-person versus distance-learning training programs. Thanks for your help!

I'd say it depends on what your aviation background is. I had pilot ratings when I went to Jeppesen and I can't imagine having done that through their distance learning program. It was intense enough being there in person day in and day out. The first few weeks weren't bad but by week three, I felt like I was never ahead of the game. I spent nearly all free time studying with my study group. But I was well prepared for the written, oral and practical because of it.

It probably really does come down to how disciplined you are on your own and how well you learn with minimal face to face instruction. I would not do well in that environment. Just be really honest with yourself about how you think you'll best learn in a very fast paced and intense program and you'll have your answer.

Good luck!

 

[MT]

If you have no previous aviation experience then I strongly advise you to go to the 6 week course and not try the distance learning approach.

As far as school selection mattering, I'm in the vocal minority and it's not worth my energy to argue the point anymore. However let me paraphrase something Kev said awhile ago. You're making a decision that will affect the rest of your career, so why wouldn't you want to go to the best and give yourself the best chance?

I will leave that up to you.

 

[ChitownMike]

I'm currently at Jepp and in week 3 right now. It is very intense but if you have a good study group and have great study habits, you can do great here. I'm studying 3-4 hours a night and 6-10 on the weekends. We have tests on Wed and Fri so we can't look ahead. It's been a great experience so far with a great class and look forward to the final 4 weeks!

Feel free to PM if you have questions about Jepp.

 

['Cap' Wilson]

Key points from someone with a lot of hiring experience:
1) Make every attempt to attend a full 5-6 week course.
2) Talk with hiring managers at a few airlines, there are reasons some schools are recommended and others not.
3) I would not ask you about 3585 because it is not required for the ticket. However if you do not understand the concepts of legal to go and when an alternate is required you go to the back of the line. This is dispatch 101.
4) If you cannot verbally read and understand basic weather reports, forecasts, and PIREPs you go to the back of the line.
5) I want someone with a good foundation who is teachable, there are schools writing tickets with no foundation.
6) Learn as much as you possibly can in school. It will show in the interview and you will go to the head of the line.
7) Strong foundations rise to the top and go on to great opportunities. Make the investment in your future.

Best of luck!

 

[Cessna_Chick]

So, I have been researching about becoming a dispatcher for the past couple months, and I understand that Sheffield, Jeppesen, and IFOD seem to be the big three. My question is whether it would be better to attend the 5-6 week training offered by these schools, or if it would be okay to do a distance-learning program like with Flamingo Air/AGS? Financially, for me it would be better to do a distance learning, but if I will learn more and be better prepared to get my certificate and find a job, I would be willing to attend one of the three that I mentioned. Again, this might be dependent on each individual's learning style and how they learn best. As far as I can tell, it doesn't really seem to matter which specific school you go to (just do what works best for you), but I would be interested to get advice on in-person versus distance-learning training programs. Thanks for your help!

I think it really depends on your learning style. I learn fairly quickly and have the motivation to teach myself to thoroughly understand. I did the distance learning since I knew if I had to sit in a classroom for 6 weeks and they went slower due to other people's learning I'd be bored and unhappy. The cost and time was also a factor of course, but it was heavily based on my learning style. I also had resources (people) to ask if I didn't get something.

I know at my current carrier, they didn't ask where I went to dispatch school, nor do I think they cared. It was about my personality and how I came across in the interview. I also had a more unique resume since I didn't do the traditional route of working at a regional first. I don't think a dispatch school makes or breaks getting a job. Being a good student no matter where you go and knowing you stuff and being able to show you know it, that's the key I believe.

 

[Flagship_dxer]

I would say a classroom five week course is better. I say this because in those five weeks you have a chance to make personal connections that can last your whole career. If you use distance learning and do not have an aviation background and have few connections in the industry, I think you can be doing yourself a big disservice. You should never miss out on an opportunity to make friends. Yeah, being knowledgable is important but even more important than that is being someone that others can work with. You never know if your current carrier is at some point going to go bankrupt, furlough or merge with another carrier. If you need a job, knowing people is the best way into any airline dispatch group.

Internals with no experience get hired at majors over dispatchers with decades of experience because they are a known quantity to the people doing the hiring. They know someone with experience will likely need less time in training and might at that moment have better real world dispatch knowledge. They also know the internal without experience personally and want to see that person they have gotten to know advance to be a member of the dispatch group.

Likewise, your fellow classmates can easily be your next hiring manager at a regional. They can also become someone who can help to advance your career to a major.

There are exceptions to every rule but on the whole if you want to succeed in this business you need to have a circle of friends that want to work with you and that you want to work with. The majors may throw money at you but you can be miserable at a major making money and happy at a regional making pennies. If you do not have industry experience or connections, I think going to dispatch school is a good way to start your journey.

 

[kgolden]

Thank you all so much! These suggestions are all super helpful! I do have a bit of aviation background, but much of my knowledge needs to be refreshed. I took some aviation courses through UND about 6 years ago, and received my private pilot's license about 4 years ago, but because of finances and college, I really haven't been able to fly or think much about it. I'm sure I am capable of distance learning, but I know I do better in a classroom setting. And the idea of forming friendships and connections makes a lot of sense.