Where are they now???

Re: mavmb1 cries some more...

It will probably never affect his points about Pan Am but Thought that all who might be interested to know that He attended Pan Am and could not keep up with the program so he was asked to leave. Judging by his actions in the aviation world THEY made the right choice. Pan Am only wants people who can suceed and are mature, obviously Mav is NOT mature.
 
Re: mavmb1 cries some more...

[ QUOTE ]
Pan Am only wants people who can suceed and are mature, obviously Mav is NOT mature.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry, but after following this little bitch fest - NOBODY involved can claim the high groud - ESPECIALLY after the diatribe of crap that was posted above.

Regardless of what you think of Mav and what Mav thinks of you - the above was not only uncalled for - it was highly unprofessional. HIGHLY!!

I read in an interview gouge that when employers hear one pilot run another pilot down for decisions/mistakes he or she mades - that's pretty much the end of the interview. Good bye - thanks for playing.

Mav is wrong - justplanefun was wrong - and you all need to grow up and let it go.

To be honest, if I knew who any of you were and was in the position to hire you - you would not even get through the door. Mav included.

End the childishness now.

Let those who have all of their ratings and have NEVER made a mistake in the cockpit throw the next stone.

Act like adults or shut your traps. The above is inexcusable!

R2F
 
Re: mavmb1 cries some more...

[ QUOTE ]

Only one way to enter the pattern....up initial at 300+kts
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[/ QUOTE ]

Figgin' Air Farce guys....the only PROPER way to enter the pattern is the overhead with a break at the stern!
 
Re: mavmb1 cries some more...

[ QUOTE ]
End the childishness now.

Let those who have all of their ratings and have NEVER made a mistake in the cockpit throw the next stone.

Act like adults or shut your traps. The above is inexcusable!

[/ QUOTE ]


<font color="red">GROUP HUG!!! </font>
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Re: mavmb1 cries some more...

[ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry, but after following this little bitch fest - NOBODY involved can claim the high groud - ESPECIALLY after the diatribe of crap that was posted above.

Regardless of what you think of Mav and what Mav thinks of you - the above was not only uncalled for - it was highly unprofessional. HIGHLY!!

I read in an interview gouge that when employers hear one pilot run another pilot down for decisions/mistakes he or she mades - that's pretty much the end of the interview. Good bye - thanks for playing.

Mav is wrong - justplanefun was wrong - and you all need to grow up and let it go.

To be honest, if I knew who any of you were and was in the position to hire you - you would not even get through the door. Mav included.

End the childishness now.

Let those who have all of their ratings and have NEVER made a mistake in the cockpit throw the next stone.

Act like adults or shut your traps. The above is inexcusable!

[/ QUOTE ]

well said R2F!!!
i've been reading the perpetual slug fest in this forum for quite awhile now and you all are acting like babies.

And whoever justplanefun is they are worse than tomcatter. I mean come on do you think we are that stupid to not think its one of you pan am guys. Also the personal attacks on another pilots flying was pretty low of you.

I think the PanAm good versus evil issue has been beat to death. Lets bury it already.
 
Re: mavmb1 cries some more...

[ QUOTE ]
Ok boys here it goes. 1. Returned from Las Vegas with only 6 gallons of gas TOTAL left in a C-182RG, Told the students that were with him "We are good on fuel AFTER the STUDENT questioned him as wel as telling them that HE was the instructor (what a laugh) Isn't this a bust of regs.? 2. Loaded a C-310 with four adults, max baggage and fuel and claimed to another instructor that he was "going to Idaho and it will take 3 1/2 hours." Had a left engine problem and made an emergency landing at Prescott, When the plane returned (with a different instructor flying) there was no problem with the engine. Mav claimed that the left engine nearly quit and ran rough but the plane ROLLED TO THE RIGHT? HUH? problem turned out to be he did'nt know how to run the fuel pumps or lean the engine properly. 3. He flew a cherokee six which is owned by someone else other than Sawyer and after the flight the owner told him that he was not too bad for a student pilot. What a surprise to the owner who found out that he was an instructor!!!! He got checked out in an Apache and when he and the instructor got back the instructor just shook his head and said He's gonna ned alot of work. OK OK one more, He was given an instrument check out on a simulator by one of the instructors at sawyer and he could not find his way to Williams Gateway from Scottsdale, he had no clue where he was at all NONE, ZIPPO !!!!! anyone wanna fly with him?? did'nt think so. So stay tuned Ladys and Gentlemen for more of the " I'm so good Mav show"

[/ QUOTE ]

Wait- I know who this is. The only thing partially correct there is when I flew with low fuel tanks! Everything else is made up!
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But I know where this info is coming from. There's an instructor we hired that's now trying to sue Sawyer, the school he's working for! That pretty much shows you the man's insanity right there! He worked at Glendale, then two places at Scottsdale, and kept getting fired everythere. Well the last place he worked, he just said they stopped giving him students because he wasn't Jewish, Riiiight. I know it's him too because he saw me on jetcareers at sawyer one day (he used to go to Pan Am too) and he said he was going to come on here and write about how Pan Am stole alot of his money. However, I'll even defend Pan Am here. Giving this guy's attitude everywhere he goes, I doubt Pan Am was at fault on this one.

Well, I apologize to everyone for how ridiculous and unprofessional this thread has gotten.
 
Re: mavmb1 cries some more...

By the way, I could disclose all the accidents this guy's been in during his flying career too. In talking about me, he's just really talking about himself. But I'm not going to stoop to his level, and I don't think it's professional to do that.

If we want to talk about flight schools let's proceed. Otherwise don't pollute the website with all of this garbage.
 
Re: mavmb1 cries some more...

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Pan Am only wants people who can suceed and are mature, obviously Mav is NOT mature.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry, but after following this little bitch fest - NOBODY involved can claim the high groud - ESPECIALLY after the diatribe of crap that was posted above.

Regardless of what you think of Mav and what Mav thinks of you - the above was not only uncalled for - it was highly unprofessional. HIGHLY!!

I read in an interview gouge that when employers hear one pilot run another pilot down for decisions/mistakes he or she mades - that's pretty much the end of the interview. Good bye - thanks for playing.

Mav is wrong - justplanefun was wrong - and you all need to grow up and let it go.

To be honest, if I knew who any of you were and was in the position to hire you - you would not even get through the door. Mav included.

End the childishness now.

Let those who have all of their ratings and have NEVER made a mistake in the cockpit throw the next stone.

Act like adults or shut your traps. The above is inexcusable!

R2F

[/ QUOTE ]

I am sorry...but Mav brings it on himself!! Look at the opening of this thread. It is just filled w/ malice and sarcasm thinly veiled as an innocent inquiry. Please! All he was looking to do is rub salt in a wound that he is hoping to open up in anyone that has completed the PanAm program and is waiting to instruct. Obviously the man is bitter only toward PanAm, as I have found very few posts, negative or otherwise, from him on FSI, Delta, or any other major academies forum page. If anyone needs to grow up, it is Mav. It is sad really... Something rather traumatic must have happened to him while he was at PanAm and is having a VERY hard time letting it go. A true grown up would do their best to learn from their experience, not tear down everyone who is associated w/ that institution.

Mav, this is for you... It is OKAY that an FBO is a better training ground for YOU. It is unfortunate that it was an expensive lesson to learn, but if you learned from it, it wasn't a mistake! Please just keep in mind, that just because you had a bad experience doesn't mean that EVERYONE is going to have the same experience as you. Yes, the big academies are expensive. Yes, I am sure that some don't treat their students as they should be treated. Yes, I am sure you can receive great training from an FBO. All of that boils down to personal choice. I am okay w/ the cost. I okay w/ not being treated like a VIP. (Although, I have yet to find anyone that is not VERY willing to help me figure something out.) As long as my aircraft are airworthy, my instructor knows what he is talking about, and I pass my stagechecks, I am happy. That is it! What is important to me may not be what is important to you, and that is OKAY!!! It all comes down to how much time and effort I am willing to put into it. The top students in my class are the ones that are focused on success, not complaining about the school.

Anyway, that is enough from me... I have a checkride to get ready for! :-)

By the way, I apologize to the rest of the forum for encouraging the posting of Mav's alleged boo-boo's.
 
Re: mavmb1 cries some more...

Agreed enough of the horse• I only jumped in to point out that Mav is NOT this perfect person with a legit gripe. He thinks he knows who I am. He is dead wrong there he might know my source of info but that is all he knows. As for the info what has been posted IS TRUE and can be verified but really who the hell cares? BOTTOM LINE IF YOU CAN'T BE CONSTRUCTIVE THEN "TAKE YOUR BALL" AND GO HOME.
 
Re: mavmb1 cries some more...

[ QUOTE ]
Agreed enough of the horse• I only jumped in to point out that Mav is NOT this perfect person with a legit gripe. He thinks he knows who I am. He is dead wrong there he might know my source of info but that is all he knows. As for the info what has been posted IS TRUE and can be verified but really who the hell cares? BOTTOM LINE IF YOU CAN'T BE CONSTRUCTIVE THEN "TAKE YOUR BALL" AND GO HOME.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think all CFIs, be them academy or FBO, are bottomfeeding scum. There.....equal opportunity!
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.....maybe justplanefun is TomCatter!
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Let's all lighten the hell up here, guys. Hmmm, let me see, I've got:

5,387 TT
5,002 PIC
2,140 ME
1,490 Turbine
1,206 Turbine PIC

What have I Fu%ked up in my aviation career? Here's a few of the bigger ones:

*1. Returning IFR from DUG to P19 (AZ) via P04 and FHU stopovers for cargo pickup, on climbout IMC, I go to switch the fuel selector to right tank and promptly break the selector knob. End up landing at P19 with 4 gallons in the right main, 3/4 full left main. Made the mission happen but was sweating the gauges. Would've been far more prudent to divert.

*2. Returning late night IFR/IMC from ABQ to PHX at 0130. Nothing to do, boring as hell with an empty Navajo-Chieftain. Plane has no autopilot, so I've got it trimmed out flying inbound on the V-airway and passing time watching the DME decrease (watching the grass grow) and reading a paperback. Right engine begins to miss, followed shortly later by left. Luckily, my quick flow, which starts at the center floor, caught the fact that, in fact, the outboard tanks were empty. A quick reset to the mains and all is well. In the Chieftain, the fuel gauges are on the overhead console and not well lit. Still, they should've been more in my crosscheck, so as to have me only partially fat/dumb/happy (as opposed to fully F/D/H).

*3. Landing on the Navajo Res (Chinle) at night in a 206 with an INOP landing light, went to click on the PCL, only one side of the runway would light up. WX is moving in, so I go ahead and press to final in a vain attempt to beat the gusty winds; end up lining up on the wrong side of the runway; only noticed it because the lit windsock wasn't where it should've been in realtion to runway lights; just didn't look right. Made a go around in time, but prudence would've dictated that I make a low pass firstto get bearings even w/o the landing light by using the whole airfield perspective, then pull closed downwind and land.

You see, for you mudslingers out there (justplanefun, this means you) even with my experience, which by the nature and composition of your posts I would handily wager you don't have, I've had to learn some things from the school of hard knocks; luckily nothing that's resulted in a pranged plane or an injury due to pilot error. Each of these situations were EASILY solved at zero altitude/airspeed and 1 G on the ground. We live and learn in order to be able to make that same easy ground quick analysis while in the air, and remember the things we did right to put in our aviation bag of tricks, and learn from the things we did wrong.

There's a difference between analyzing someone's poor performance, and plain mudslinging.

All mudslingers beware: Take a look in the mirror first.

That goes for everyone.
 
Re: mavmb1 cries some more...

[ QUOTE ]
I think all CFIs, be them academy or FBO, are bottomfeeding scum. There.....equal opportunity!

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey, I resemble that remark...er....
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Re: mavmb1 cries some more...

No, it's really not true!
mad.gif
and quite frankly, it pisses me off (as it would anyone else) that someone is so sleazy as to post lies like that!

And I admit in my first post that I was being an •. However, I want to clarify the reason I keep posting about Pan Am.

I keep posting about Pan Am because the purpose of this website is to give people an insider's and honest look at flight training. And it just so happens that I am located at the closest airport and flight school next to Pan Am. And several times a month, in fact, almost every week, students and instructors come over to our flight school from Pan Am very disgruntled. Very rarely, it seems to be the fault of the individual, because 10 pilots come in saying the same things about the school, and it also just so happens to be the exact same issues that I encountered when I was at the school.

Believe it or not, I feel very sympathetic towards the Flying Turkey, and others who come from Pan Am because I was once in their shoes. Last week, the Pan Am instructor/graduate I talked to that complained that he has been without a job for over two months since graduating. He feels betrayed because Bob Mertens, or whatever that guy's name is, told him the transition from student to instructor would be "very seemless." He paid 7000 dollars for an Ace Program, another couple thousand dollars for flight training in Frasca Simulators during his commercial license, took out a loan for almost 100,000 and has no job to show for it. In fact, he doesn't even have a high performance endorsement because Pan Am doesn't have an airplane over 180 horsepower, which was yet another reason he was shopping around at FBOs.

Unfortunately, even at the Scottsdale airport, I'm bombarded by complaints about Pan Am. In fact, if I posted here everytime I heard a negative comment about Pan Am from one of their students or graduates, I know people would really get tired of hearing from me!
 
Re: mavmb1 cries some more...

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, you have a good point....FOR ME TO POOP ON!


[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Chunk, that's the best tag line yet!!!! LOL!!!!
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Re: mavmb1 cries some more...

[ QUOTE ]

OHHH somebody got found out, To evertyone who wants to know, mavmb1 is a "destructor" at Sawyer I have an extermely reliable source who has informed me. mavmb1 also has had to fill out a couple of NASA forms to cover up his stupiity of entering the pattern in the wrong direction not once but TWICE at Falcon Field WITH a student on borad. I've got more info if anyone is interested. So They are right "MAV YOU ARE DANGEROUS"

[/ QUOTE ]

Extremely reliable source? I think not.

CRASH A LESSON GONE BAD

Thomas Ropp
The Arizona Republic
Dec 13, 2003 12:00 AM

NORTHEAST VALLEY – A federal report points to instructor error as the cause of a Nov 24 crash northeast of Fountain Hills that injured two in a small plane.

The Scottsdale Republic has learned that the certified flight instructor, David Sapp, has been suspended from his job with Sawyer Aviation out of the Scottsdale Airport and has had difficulties at two other training schools.

According to details released by the National Transportation Safety Board, Sapp was teaching a student how to fly a Cessna 172. It’s customary in checkouts for students to perform a series of basic maneuvers including stalls, slow flight, S-turns and simulated emergency landings. During the emergency landing drill, pilots fly without power while looking for an appropriate place to land. Pilots are supposed to fly no lower than 500 feet above the ground before restoring power and resuming normal flight. The NTSB report says the student attempted to restore power at the appropriate time, but Sapp took over and insisted they go lower, to 20 feet above the ground. The report goes on:

“As the airplane continued its descent, he (the student) became worried about the CFI’s (certified flight instructor’s) conduct. However, he did not say anything.”

The propeller hit the ground, and Sapp lost control of the plane. Neither man received serious injuries.

Sapp, 47, a resident of Glendale, insists what really happened is the student had control of the plane and panicked.

“The NTSB investigator told me that they were going to blame me for this,” Sapp said. “And yes, I am responsible because I have a higher certification. And yes, we shouldn’t have been that low. But the report is wrong.”

Sapp also said he feels it’s unfair that he was suspended from Sawyer.

Four months ago, Sapp worked for Southwest Flight Center, also out of Scottsdale Airport. Gary Lewin, president of the Southwest Flight Center, said his company came to a mutual agreement with Sapp that he should leave.

Sapp says he quit.

Two years earlier Sapp was fired from Glendale Aviation after fighting with another flight instructor. Sapp admits this, but says the other instructor attacked him.

Hyrum Miller president of the Scottsdale Airport Sawyer Aviation Facility, said Sapp is suspended for at least six months while the Federal Aviation Administration investigates.

“David just made a classic blunder that many pilots make,” Miller said. “They get overconfident and put themselves in a position where they have no options. The facts are he was too low and too slow.”

The FAA could suspend or terminate Sapp’s pilot’s license. He could also be required to attend training. Sapp said he already has two other job offers.

You can view the NTSB investigation at www.ntsb.gov and click on accident reports.


Reach the reporter at Thomas.ropp@scottsdalerepublic.com or at (602) 444 – 6880.

VIEW THE FOUNTAIN HILLS NTSB ACCIDENT REPORT HERE
 
Re: mavmb1 cries some more...

And the point is? I'm not questioning your ability but this doesn't prove or discredit anything so far in this thread about you, mav.
 
Re: mavmb1 cries some more...

Unlike what you want to believe Tired, there's nothing to discredit. That seems to make you mad for some reason.
 
Re: mavmb1 cries some more...

Huh? Considering that in this thread people call into question your ability, I would think you WOULD want to discredit them.

Again, what is your point?
 
Re: mavmb1 cries some more...

Man, guys! I'm with R2F, MikeD, et al. on this one. This has been going on for MONTHS!

When I was shopping for schools, I was ready to pack up and head to PanAm, FSI, or DCA. They all seemed like good programs and the visits were going to be the final deciding factor. But, after reading the mudslinging that goes on here, I decided that I didn't want any part of a school whose INSTRUCTORS throw insults and argue like little kids! I have to wonder what your job situations would be like if your employers knew how you conduct yourselves here. I'm sure that the schools all have great instructors and programs, but some of this dissention must spill over into the atmosphere of the school. A few rotten apples sure can ruin life for the many good ones.

Cheers to Turk and the others who present themselves professionally. Shame on the rest of you.
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Re: mavmb1 cries some more...

I don't know why anyone would want to set themselves up as a target and/or burn their bridges. The emotion and lack of judgement on this thread is a bit scary and can have far reaching effects. Annoynimity is not guaranteed and this industry is surpisingly small at times. My company posts the names of those who are to be interviewed, why set yourself up as a target. I have friends at Pan Am that know some of the people that post here are and I am sure there are people that know who the crazy Pan Am'ers posters as well. My point is, it is hard enough to survive in this industry without somebody gunning for you. I know jobs and career should be based on merit, but life is not fair. It is more often timing and who you know. People are people and they hold grudges. Do you want meet that guy with a grudge during your interview, as your captian writing your evaluation, as your PC sim instructor... Hopefully this will be food for thought, enough of a lecture. Good luck all.

PS I apoligize to anyone, if my posts have offended. Thanks.
 
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