"When you see a Pilot, they're not getting paid."

jtrain609 said:
That's what we sell right there, being on time 99.7% of the time.

Like I said, we're not the regionals and we don't play the same game.
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You're right. It's not the same game. You cater to customers that will pay a premium for service. We cater to people that just want to get to Omaha for the cheapest price. You can't say "We pay per duty hour, and the airlines should/could, too." The rules are different, so that can't happen. It's like saying you're gonna score a touchdown by swinging a baseball bat. Two different games. Passengers will bitch up a storm if you're 20 minutes late, but if you're the cheapest, they'll fly you again. If a package doesn't arrive on time, the sender takes his business elsewhere, even if it means paying more.

Personally, I blame Wal-Mart. :)
 
It's not my deal bro, I'm not involved in that rat race and I've got my own issues over here to deal with (there are some, depending on the base/equipment type). You guys can hold yourselves as high, or as low as you'd like, but it's up to you guys and not some freight guy on an internet forum.
 
NJA_Capt said:
I divided my salary by my flt hours/year and got $300/hr
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That doesn't mean much - first year regional FO's on reserve here are making in the $100's/flight hour because we are fat on FO's and they never fly. But their take home after tax is about $1300/month...
 
Ehh... Do you know what kind of hassle it is to go to the bathroom in flight! :)

The "new reality" in the aviation industry: Pee before you leave/Execute a PDP (pre departure pee)
 
"Ehh... Do you know what kind of hassle it is to go to the bathroom in flight"

One more reason to be a freight dawg.
 
Doug Taylor said:
Ehh... Do you know what kind of hassle it is to go to the bathroom in flight! :)

The "new reality" in the aviation industry: Pee before you leave/Execute a PDP (pre departure pee)
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Since I fly USAir so much, I have discovered that the PDP is pretty much useless for those older guys. :laff:
 
DE727UPS said:
"Ehh... Do you know what kind of hassle it is to go to the bathroom in flight"

One more reason to be a freight dawg.
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Exactly.

If you have a delay, well, you have the luxury of working out the logistics.

if *I* have a delay, well, they it's always a customer service issue because someone snapped at your flight attendant and now she's mad. Well, the passenger is mad because your flight attendant wouldn't allow him to stay on the aircraft and go blotto on gin and tonics. The captain is off calling his ex-wife so you're expected to somehow generate empathy and solve the situation.

Then the mechanics show up and say "Woo! Hey, glad we have you, what do you think the problem is? Aren't you starting trainig on the sevum-five yet?"

Damn, and that was just the first day of my trip! :)

I'm so ready for the ER, it's not even funny.

A dinner, a nap, a breakfast, and a long layover.
 
wheelsup said:
121 pilots are also paid while on duty, much like AMF pays it's pilots. There's just also an opportunity to pay above and beyond that salary at an airline.
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wheelsup said:
That doesn't mean much - first year regional FO's on reserve here are making in the $100's/flight hour because we are fat on FO's and they never fly. But their take home after tax is about $1300/month...
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You don't fly here and you don't get paid.

We have no guarantee, no per diem for those of us not at an outstation. If we overnight we get $20 a night. Fortunately we don't have any trips with scheduled overnights and it doesn't happen too regularly.


If we had a guarantee, company would just freak out if anyone *ever* didn't work that much.


Seriously though. Your guarantee doesn't mean that you are paid more for hour if they don't meet it. It means that your company is guaranteeing to pay you for 70 flight hours whether you work them or not.

You are taking guarantees for granted. They are far from required, although fortunately most companies have them. But it's also far from *every* 121 operator that does.

And I still don't understand how having a monthly guarantee means that you should be willing to be on duty 24/7 becuase "it's paid." By that logic they could make you be on duty 6 days a week at the airport and just fly you enough to meet the guarantee and you'd have nothing to complain about. At an airline with a guarantee you do not have a salary. You just have a minimum amount they guarantee they will pay you for commiting to being an employee.
 
Baradium said:
Seriously though. Your guarantee doesn't mean that you are paid more for hour if they don't meet it.
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Um, duh? Where did you get the impression I thought it did? I was refuting NJA_Capt's claim that he is paid $300/hr. Well he might be, but if you are paid for 1 hour/month that sucks! (you pointed this out too, I'm just rephrasing, and yes I know Netjets guys aren't paid simply for 1 hour of pay per month, it's just an extreme example).

And I still don't understand how having a monthly guarantee means that you should be willing to be on duty 24/7 becuase "it's paid." By that logic they could make you be on duty 6 days a week at the airport and just fly you enough to meet the guarantee and you'd have nothing to complain about. At an airline with a guarantee you do not have a salary. You just have a minimum amount they guarantee they will pay you for commiting to being an employee.
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I never said I was willing to be on duty 24/7, did I?

As a 121 regional pilot, I receive a set salary (guarantee of 75 hours x pay rate) with a minimum amount of days off (12). If someone works more than 8:20 duty (or credit >4:10) each reserve day, they end up going over guarantee and making more money. If they work less, then they still get paid the same regardless (hence the "salary" part).

If you look at any corporate, white collar job, this is how the real world works - if you have to stay late to work on a project, you ain't paid a $1 more. If you have to go on a trip over the weekend, no OT for you. That is what I meant when I said we are paid while on duty.
 
Heck, pilot602 pointed out a few weeks ago that Skywest could give every pilot a $10,000 A MONTH raise and still not make a dent in the profits of the company.
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I'd be all for that, though I think it would make a dent in the profits. That'd be $30,000 per pilot per quarter. $30,000 x 2500 pilots is $75 million. SkyWest's best quarterly profit was $40 million. I'd think $1000 a month more per pilot is doable. So is raising per diem by a dime. Then maybe I wouldn't feel bad about losing a month's loan repayment to van drivers. :p
 
wheelsup said:
I was refuting NJA_Capt's claim that he is paid $300/hr.
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Don't put words in my mouth. My claim was that I was paid when I was on duty. Everyone on here seems to be focused on "hourly pay" so for grins I figured what mine worked out to last year. Hence the wink at the end of my last post.
 
NJA_Capt said:
Don't put words in my mouth. My claim was that I was paid when I was on duty. Everyone on here seems to be focused on "hourly pay" so for grins I figured what mine worked out to last year. Hence the wink at the end of my last post.
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Yep, I totally understood where you were coming from, the poster I responded too thought I was coming up with it on my own though. I know you can't just divide hourly pay by hours worked, it doesn't work like that here.
 
wheelsup said:
Yep, I totally understood where you were coming from, the poster I responded too thought I was coming up with it on my own though. I know you can't just divide hourly pay by hours worked, it doesn't work like that here.
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But uhm....that's exactly what you did
 
How about this? I'll take my hourly wage of $20.73 and multiply it by an average flying day for me, 5 hours = $103.65 for the day. Now, let's take the average duty time for that day for me, 8 hours and multiply that by, say, an AMF training CA's pay of $12 = $96. So, if I were to say "I get paid while I'm on duty," I'd actually come out AHEAD. Now, if I go max duty day and max flying, the margin tends to minimize to the point where it's close to even.

So, technically, the higher flight hour pay compensates for the duty pay. Is it right? No, but I can't realistically expect an airline to pay the same rate for every duty hour. Really, the best way to get scheduling to even attempt to use people on a somewhat efficient basis is trip rigs. I have plenty of days where I do 3 hours of flying, and I'm on duty 5 hours. A trip rig would probably have me flying more and sitting around less since they'd have to pay me anyway. Besides, the guys that say "I get paid the sime if I sit around for 8 hours or if I fly for 8 hours" really can't talk about scheduling using them efficiently....
 
Where I was going with the whole pilots on salary thing is this:

75 hours/month x Pay Rate (let's say $35/hr) / Max days on (18) = daily rate of $145, monthly rate of $~2600, or yearly rate of ~$31000.

But like I said, on a white collar salaried job, you get paid the same regardless if you work 80 hours per week or 10. That's the premise behind it. Fortunately, we can get paid more if we work more. I never said the pay was good!!
 
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