When released from a non-towered airport

braunpilot

What day is it?
Ok, so most mornings I depart from a non-towered field. The tower doesn't open until 0630 and I'm airborne around 0600. The question is when I get my release from approach they say "CS123 you are released for departure, follow the published departure procedures, void if not airborne within 5 minutes." They never specify a departure heading or initial navigation fix and the departure procedures only tells you what to do if turning left but that is it. What would you do?

EDIT - I turn right/south from the airport. I usually depart 12R/30L and I cannot contact departure prior to about 1300 MSL.
 

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What i would do is probably wrong, if they dont give me a fix, I would start flying towards the first one on my flight plan. However, after a doing it day in and day out, im sure you here the same instructions everytime once you contact them. So, after a while i would probably just fly to wherever they usually end up giving me a clearance.


Whats the right way to do it? Whatever way doesnt get you bitched at, IMHO.
 
Without instructions I'd do what I feel I need to do to get the flight started.

Hijack: Please don't be, and you didn't allude to it in your op, that guy that calls and gets his clearance 20 minutes before his planned departure time.
When I would have to make a stop in OKV on the way to HEF I had about a 10-15 turn and a lot of times there was this DB in a Citation that would stop in and get his clearance while taxiing in and then not leave. Of course I couldn't get my clearance holding short. We had words one day and the guy was totally clueless of how the system works. Typical corporate DB.
 
If you want, just say something like, do you want me on a heading after the DP? As far as not recieving a heading, maybe they forgot, maybe they assumed they'd be in 2 way with you before the DP terminated. To be honest most of the other airports, I can establish 2 way at about 100 agl and I know for a fact I can on my non rtr freqs with the aircraft on the ground at several other airports. I'm not saying its right to assume anything and yeah I'd definately ask for clarification on heading. I've noticed a/c check on much later out of there than the others, now I know its probably a line of sight issue and not a quirky tower. Then again that freq is the red headed step child. Cool, I learned something.

I know the airport you fly out of very well. If you have any controller questions specific to that airport or surrounding area feel free to PM me.
 
Climb to 400' AGL, then make a turn in a direction to get you on course, unless the DP specifies otherwise.

Until radar separation has been established between you and any other traffic in the area, we've got to protect the airspace around the airport assuming that a pilot will turn in any direction. If there is no DP involved (ODP or SID), and you were not issued specific departure instructions, you are free to turn in any direction to your on-course heading.
 
To the OP, simply fly your clearance.

The DP tells you how to get off the ground and turned safely. Follow those instructions to the letter, then turn to the first fix on your clearance. If you're cleared Direct Destination, turn towards there. The DP doesn't give you any limitations departing from 12R and turning right, so you fly the runway heading until you are safe to begin the turn at (like Barty said) 400' above the field elevation, and as long as you can climb at better than 200 feet per nautical mile you won't hit anything.

What is your typical clearance? You have to have been given something other than "Cleared for Departure", maybe something like "Cleared to destination as filed, fly the departure procedure, void if blah blah blah." If you haven't been given a Cleared-To-XXX, via Something-Or-Other, then you aren't on an IFR flight plan.
 
Perhaps they want you to climb to 1000 feet and then left on course when using 12R. Sure left could be 270 degrees around, but if there is an obstacle there, the extra time and altitude gained would be worthwhile.
 
Perhaps they want you to climb to 1000 feet and then left on course when using 12R. Sure left could be 270 degrees around, but if there is an obstacle there, the extra time and altitude gained would be worthwhile.

I'm pretty sure that you only have to worry about the obstacle if you turn left. If a right turn is made there are no obstacles that come into play, so no climb requirement prior to turning. I'm thinking I'd rather turn right if that's the most direct way to my first fix.
 
Without instructions I'd do what I feel I need to do to get the flight started.

Hijack: Please don't be, and you didn't allude to it in your op, that guy that calls and gets his clearance 20 minutes before his planned departure time.
When I would have to make a stop in OKV on the way to HEF I had about a 10-15 turn and a lot of times there was this DB in a Citation that would stop in and get his clearance while taxiing in and then not leave. Of course I couldn't get my clearance holding short. We had words one day and the guy was totally clueless of how the system works. Typical corporate DB.

Whats wrong with getting your clearance 20-30 mins early? We give them to pilots all the time. Then we just tell them "hold for release" and call #1 and ready to depart. The clearance isn't active until your release so no harm in the Citation "DB" getting his clearance during his taxi in as long as the controller doesn't issue him a release with no void time.
 
I'm pretty sure that you only have to worry about the obstacle if you turn left. If a right turn is made there are no obstacles that come into play, so no climb requirement prior to turning. I'm thinking I'd rather turn right if that's the most direct way to my first fix.

Thats how I read it, not that I have nearly as much time in my log book as you guys. The funny thing is coming off 30R no right turns are allowed and off 12L a right turn to about a 210 heading points you right into our highest MVA about 10 miles down the pike. Having said that a Cessna 150 on a hot day could be over that MVA in 10 miles.
 
Ok, so most mornings I depart from a non-towered field. The tower doesn't open until 0630 and I'm airborne around 0600. The question is when I get my release from approach they say "CS123 you are released for departure, follow the published departure procedures, void if not airborne within 5 minutes." They never specify a departure heading or initial navigation fix and the departure procedures only tells you what to do if turning left but that is it. What would you do?

EDIT - I turn right/south from the airport. I usually depart 12R/30L and I cannot contact departure prior to about 1300 MSL.
At a non-controlled airport:
Departure can't tell you what runway to depart. That's PD.
They can clear you to a fix via a published departure procedure but if one is not published it's pure PD.
If ATC releases you IFR to destination as filed than game on.
I would only clear you to your initial fix until radar contact.
 
That'll cost you at LEAST three beers if we ever meet.

Yeah, I was a little hasty there. But we'll see...

Whats wrong with getting your clearance 20-30 mins early? We give them to pilots all the time. Then we just tell them "hold for release" and call #1 and ready to depart. The clearance isn't active until your release so no harm in the Citation "DB" getting his clearance during his taxi in as long as the controller doesn't issue him a release with no void time.
No this guy would get a release. Locking up departures. Ruining my morning.
He's inside drinking coffee. Bad form on the controllers part, too, in my opinion.
 
Yeah, I was a little hasty there. But we'll see...


No this guy would get a release. Locking up departures. Ruining my morning.
He's inside drinking coffee. Bad form on the controllers part, too, in my opinion.


Yeah that is definitely the controllers fault IMO (Pilot is still a an idiot) The controller was a meathead because he essentially closed the aerodrome indefinitely to IFR inbounds as well because without a clearance void time there is technically no point on which to determine an "overdue aircraft" and begin S&R (which is the real reason for clearance void times beyond not screwing other pilots) Thats why we always tell the pilot to call #1 and ready to go for a release. We can issue a 3-5 min release (or 2 mins if operationally advantageous)and there should be no problem getting off in that time.
 
At a non-controlled airport:
Departure can't tell you what runway to depart. That's PD.
They can clear you to a fix via a published departure procedure but if one is not published it's pure PD.
If ATC releases you IFR to destination as filed than game on.
I would only clear you to your initial fix until radar contact.

Ok, That is actually kind of nice to have that list. If I don't get the clearance to the initial fix I guess it's more of an do I fly rwy hdg or to the flight plan fix.

To the OP, simply fly your clearance.

The DP tells you how to get off the ground and turned safely. Follow those instructions to the letter, then turn to the first fix on your clearance. If you're cleared Direct Destination, turn towards there. The DP doesn't give you any limitations departing from 12R and turning right, so you fly the runway heading until you are safe to begin the turn at (like Barty said) 400' above the field elevation, and as long as you can climb at better than 200 feet per nautical mile you won't hit anything.

What is your typical clearance? You have to have been given something other than "Cleared for Departure", maybe something like "Cleared to destination as filed, fly the departure procedure, void if blah blah blah." If you haven't been given a Cleared-To-XXX, via Something-Or-Other, then you aren't on an IFR flight plan.

Typical Flight Plan
FAM V9 MAW

Typical Clearance
AF
Climb 2,600 then 7,000
Departure freq & sqwak.
 
As SteveC said, comply with the departure procedure, then climb at a rate that's at least 200 ft/nm direct to your first cleared fix. In this case, climb to 2600 direct to FAM once you've complied with the DP off of whichever runway you've chosen to depart.
 
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