jhugz
Well-Known Member
bingo :clap:
When do you become a corporate pilot?
- Thread starter NewPilot1
- Start date
bingo :clap:
CK
Well-Known Member
If I am a contract pilot on the Meridian, I will fly Meridians for numerous companies. If Company A is willing to pay for my yearly training, training that I will use to qualify to fly for Companies B, C, and D, I will not charge Company A for the days I am in training. I guess in this case you would also send a bill to Companies B, C, and D?
Alex.
stesta5074
Well-Known Member
Where is this? I'll pay him to fly his plane!
jrh
Well-Known Member
When was the last time you got hired (or contracted with, or made arrangements with, or whatever) with four different companies simultaneously?
Your example is fine for recurrent training once you're an established contract pilot, but doesn't work for initial training.
To land that first job, one single company is going to need you. Send them a bill. Or not. But it does fall squarely on one company.
nocturnalaviator
AI Jedi
Geeze, this turned into a HUGE complication, and argument back and forth. Sounds like you need to chill and be thankful someone allowed you on board their aircraft. With 500 i would chill out and quit making things complicated by thinking you're now a big time hot shot who feels entitled to everything. FLYING IS FUN, not a root canal. I suggest you shut your mouth and continue to CFI, because by the looks of it seems like you just PO'd potential business, and arent' mature enough in the industry to know proper etiquette of what/what NOT to do. TIME BUILDING lol, i love how the CFI is viewed now as a ticket to time build rather than TEACH. W O R K its a 4 letter word.
bdhill1979
Gone West
Nice, that is going on my desk
As to the whole discussion I said my piece already: You don't have a job unless the employer knows it, you are not a "Contract Pilot" without a contract.
As to the Training/checkout argument:
Yes, I did an insurance checkout in my clients plane FOR FREE, they paid for the gas and they paid the insurance bill as well. Before the checkout I had ZERO time in type. After that I charged my normal hourly rate. I have flown that plane off and on for a year and a half now, and will continue to whenever they need me. With that particular plane I have no contract, no job, its not on my business cards, just some people that own a plane that want to have someone more experienced then they are when they go away from the local area. From that deal I have made a nice pile of money in addition to the other things I do, as well as gotten some other business from their referrals; absolutely worth the half a day I "worked" for free a year and a half ago.
Sometimes you have to give a little to get a little, particularly if you have a wet certificate, I know I have had to on occasion.
Pulling the Skygod act when you have ZERO time in the airplane is a bit retarded.
jhugz
Well-Known Member
Your job can be fun, however it is still your job. Be fairly compensated for it.
I've said this many times before but flying is my job not my hobby. I expect to be paid fairly at all times. Just because I am CFI doesn't mean I have to pay them to fly the airplane, that is why our industry is so F'ed up. I have to cherish my 10k a year job in this industry because I have 10 DB behind me willing to take it. Our industry sucks the big one because us as pilots are willing to stab each other in the back and do work for less to get the job.
jhugz
Well-Known Member
What about for a corporate job in a Lear? Just because I have no Lear time I shouldn't be paid for training?
TFaudree_ERAU
Mashin' dem buttons
Disagree. I have flown with contract pilots in the Hawker for the past year. None of them had a written contract. Sometimes it can be a gentleman's agreement.
Nice choice of words Mr. True Professional.
bdhill1979
Gone West
I use the term loosely, as I got the lecture from my lawyer college brother that a written contract is merely a record of the agreement, which can come in many forms. The above discussion hinges on the fact that the OP and the airplane owner did not have an agreement in place before the OP decided he was a corporate employee
Please elaborate?
TFaudree_ERAU
Mashin' dem buttons
bdhill1979
Gone West
no, questioning the judgement and "people skills".
Judgement:
Saying "I will never work for free", when you are being handed thousands of dollars worth of training in something they were not at all qualified for at first, even when it is obvious that a little bit given will be a huge reward leads me to believe that person has difficulty seeing the realities of the working world for what they are, not some utopian fairytale.
"People skills":
Sending a potential employer a huge bill for something they were not expecting on the very first invoice leads me to believe that person does not know how to handle people, especially the ones writing the checks. Or on the flipside of that the inability to have clear communication and understanding with the employer PRIOR to performing work, then expecting the employer to just accept the terms after the fact and hope they continue the employment relationship.
I think that this is one of those things where the bestest rightest answer is...it depends.
Generally what I've seen among corporate contract jet pilots is that the answer varies depending upon a number of factors. The true contract guys that work for multiple companies tend to end up paying for their own training and don't get reimbursed for their time while at school. The flip side is that their daily rate is high enough to cover those costs. If a contract pilot works primarily for a single operator it is sometimes the case that his recurrent training might be paid for by the employer. In even rarer cases the pilot may get paid a daily rate (maybe 1/2 his flying rate, maybe full rate) while away at training.
Mostly it's a matter of what the guy can negotiate and how strong his position is with the company (or individual). It is not an insignificant question because the cost for recurrent sim training can be very high depending upon the airframe.
Generally what I've seen among corporate contract jet pilots is that the answer varies depending upon a number of factors. The true contract guys that work for multiple companies tend to end up paying for their own training and don't get reimbursed for their time while at school. The flip side is that their daily rate is high enough to cover those costs. If a contract pilot works primarily for a single operator it is sometimes the case that his recurrent training might be paid for by the employer. In even rarer cases the pilot may get paid a daily rate (maybe 1/2 his flying rate, maybe full rate) while away at training.
Mostly it's a matter of what the guy can negotiate and how strong his position is with the company (or individual). It is not an insignificant question because the cost for recurrent sim training can be very high depending upon the airframe.
TFaudree_ERAU
Mashin' dem buttons
Just saying that an adjective other than "retarded" may have been more appropriate.
Just sayin...
Carry on.
Just sayin...
Carry on.
Well, since I started this thread I should respond by saying thank you to all who have constructively added their opinions. To those that found it necessary to berate my character...I realize that there are many opinions regarding pay for training, and it seems that perhaps in my eagerness to become a "corporate pilot" has overshadowed my ability to exhibit some professionalism. Communication is essential and in the future will be first and foremost. I may have lost this job, but either way I will talk with the owner and find a resolution. Other than not being on the same page with the owner, I don't think I did anything wrong. Being paid for training, while using his aircraft or not, is not dishonorable.<O
</O
</O
NJA_Capt
Well-Known Member
Honestly, this is not anywhere close to a pay for training issue. It is nothing more than a qualification for a "pending" job, just like getting your multiengine or HP endorsement prior to obtaining a job (and SWA with 737 type). "Future" employers do not pay for any of those "prerequisites." (99.9% of the time). It was an a/c checkout and some free flight time. Nothing more, nothing less.I realize that there are many opinions regarding pay for training,<O
If the owner would have walked up to any of you CFIs and said "take my plane and put 10 hours on it (free)," every one of you would have jumped on it without a question asked. But add the premise of a potential job, and all the sudden you want to start billing the "gift horse."
